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Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

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Re: Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

#41

Post by pton_xd »

ClarityJones wrote: post #8
bbstats wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"previously people could cheat, now they can't" ?? how is that bad.

That's not the part that's bad. I don't care whether they cheat or not. I don't want the government policing what is and isn't fair in a poker / NBA / etc game. I think arresting people for cheating legitimizes backroom / mafia gambling. All the other rings (and those left from this one) can say "Look, those other guys got arrested. The law protects you. We don't want that to happen to us. Our game is definitely fair…

> I think arresting people for cheating legitimizes backroom / mafia gambling. All the other rings (and those left from this one) can say "Look, those other guys got arrested. The law protects you."

Disagree, this case demonstrates the exact opposite -- you think your underground game is legit because there's celebrities playing? Think again, it's a far more sophisticated scam operation than you could imagine.

> The only reason the FBI cares here is probably because one of the victims had pull.

Again, I doubt it. Likely it's because the mafia is involved, and according to the indictment "the defendants and their co-conspirators used threats of force and violence to secure the repayment of debts from illegal poker games."

Re: Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

#42

Post by JohnMakin »

QuadmasterXLII wrote: post #25

This scheme doesn’t really make sense. Once you’ve convinced a wealthy person to play at your underground poker table, you’ve already won - just play better poker than them, ultra wealthy fish don’t have time to learn to play perfect poker and you do. Trying to extract slightly more money per hand via x ray tables etc kills the golden goose and doesn’t even necessarily increase total winnings, since it makes you win…

“just play better poker” like that’s an easy thing to do in a game of chance and incomplete information, with variance having years or decades long tails. not to mention it’s an unsolved game, so “better” poker doesn’t even really have a set definition and depends on tons of variables. and they literally knew what hole cards were coming - that’s vastly more of an edge than playing “better poker” than someone.

Besides the fact they were often targeting pros - this was reported on and known by LA area pros for at least two years now. why the FBI decided to act now is weird to me. I can’t stress enough that in the pro scene this was common knowledge. years old podcast clips are coming up talking about it.

source: https://sports.yahoo.com/nba/breaking-news/article/professio...

Re: Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

#43

Post by mikkupikku »

MetaMalone wrote: post #35

“An X-ray poker machine was employed to read facedown cards and a rigged card-shuffling machine was also used in the plot, prosecutors say.” Would love to know more about such a machine, if anyone has any insight. Are these developed underground? How expensive could they be? If it can efficiently take in a deck of cards and deterministically return a rigged deck in a reasonable amount of time, I would be fascinated a…

Maybe it doesn't return rigged orders, but records the order of the output deck with high speed cameras.

Re: Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

#44

Post by cool_man_bob »

mschuster91 wrote: post #39
prodigycorp wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's revealing of how diminished the la costa nostra is. This is such trivial work and, yet, this was a multi-family operation.

Diminished? More like, matured into white collar crime. There's no need to murder people on the street any more, that kind of dirty work is left to some random Southern American cartels, and the white collar crime brings in more than enough profit while also being way less risky should the feds catch up on it.

> More like, matured into white collar crime.

Honestly this is the first “advanced” mafia scheme I’ve heard of in a while.

Last time I heard about a mafia crime it was a very sloppy hit that sounded more like what you hear from teenagers in Chicago shooting at each other.

Though tbf it could easily have always been like that and I’m just blinded my media bias about a group of people I’ve never known form a time I’ve never known.

Re: Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

#46

Post by cwillu »

bbstats wrote: post #32
ClarityJones wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the part that's bad. I don't care whether they cheat or not. I don't want the government policing what is and isn't fair in a poker / NBA / etc game. I think arresting people for cheating legitimizes backroom / mafia gambling. All the other rings (and those left from this one) can say "Look, those other guys got arrested. The law protects you. We don't want that to happen to us. Our game is definitely fair…

did you read the article?

While I agree that they're probably not arguing in good faith, “Did you even read the article?” is explicitly called out in the hn guidelines.

Re: Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

#47

Post by jfengel »

That seems like a lot of work. TFA said that they arrested 30 people, and got $7 million out of it. The fancy tech involved must have taken a good chunk of that.

It sounds like each of them could get at most a six-figure payday out of this. Which is no chump change, to be sure, but it sounds like many of them could have made as much money without the risk of going to jail just by getting a desk job.

Plus, there's no way a conspiracy that big is going to remain secret for long.

Maybe the expected to get away with it for longer and get a bigger payoff. But wow, it seems like a ton of effort.

Re: Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

#48

Post by 8organicbits »

MetaMalone wrote: post #35

“An X-ray poker machine was employed to read facedown cards and a rigged card-shuffling machine was also used in the plot, prosecutors say.” Would love to know more about such a machine, if anyone has any insight. Are these developed underground? How expensive could they be? If it can efficiently take in a deck of cards and deterministically return a rigged deck in a reasonable amount of time, I would be fascinated a…

Slight of hand? You put the deck to be sorted at the "in" side, the machine shuffles it, then it ejects a different rigged deck.

Re: Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

#49

Post by Noaidi »

vharuck wrote: post #10
ClarityJones wrote: post #3

This is silly. People used to play poker, and cheat, and the whole thing was illegal. Now, people play poker, and cheat, and they want the government to police their poker games and make sure they're fair. Complete waste of resources.

The poker games were run by the mafia, who pulled in a lot of cash by luring and cheating suckers. I want the FBI to stop scams that funnel money to criminal organizations.

Yes, these corporations need to be stopped. Like Wells Fargo. Still trading in the market. Maybe we should go after the stock market as well.

https://violationtracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/wells-farg...

Re: Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

#50

Post by ogig »

MetaMalone wrote: post #35

“An X-ray poker machine was employed to read facedown cards and a rigged card-shuffling machine was also used in the plot, prosecutors say.” Would love to know more about such a machine, if anyone has any insight. Are these developed underground? How expensive could they be? If it can efficiently take in a deck of cards and deterministically return a rigged deck in a reasonable amount of time, I would be fascinated a…

The rigged card-shuffling machine method is documented in this recent video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQ20ilE5DtA
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