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Meeting A Troll

traynorseye.com

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Re: Meeting A Troll

#41

Post by GrumpySimon »

zxcdw wrote: post #31
citricsquid wrote: post #22

that is not "trolling", that's (pretty bad) harassment. I get the feeling this is a story written to prove a point. Nobody would refer to this as "trolling".

How would you define trolling and a troll? I'm sincerely asking since it is my understanding that these days harassment over the internet is often cited as trolling, as in for example "We trolled Jane by spamming her inbox full of animal abuse and violence lol". I work part-time at a school with kids ranging from 7 to 16, and of what I've tried to inquire them about the subject(I'm 22 myself, so it's quite easy to go…

Yes, but calling it all "trolling" lumps it together. In the replies to your comment you can see people equating trolling to everything from slight teasing to serious harassment.

The problem with calling it all "trolling" is that it normalizes the seriously nasty things (e.g. threatening to kill someone's wife) by analogy to the less serious things ("I tease my friends all the time").

At some point, these are very different things. And they need to be treated very differently. Calling them different things (e.g. "harassment" or "hate speech" vs "trolling") helps set up that mental boundary in peoples' minds and helps them demarcate what's right and wrong.

Re: Meeting A Troll

#42

Post by tylermenezes »

I'm honestly astonished at how little Twitter seems to care about abuse and spam. I actually wrote an article about this last night (https://tyler.menez.es/articles/twitters-empathy-problem.htm...), when - after going through blog posts - I realized the spam problem there hadn't gotten any better since I first wrote about it in 2007!

Re: Meeting A Troll

#43

Post by zxcdw »

dkarl wrote: post #37
zxcdw wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you define trolling and a troll? I'm sincerely asking since it is my understanding that these days harassment over the internet is often cited as trolling, as in for example "We trolled Jane by spamming her inbox full of animal abuse and violence lol". I work part-time at a school with kids ranging from 7 to 16, and of what I've tried to inquire them about the subject(I'm 22 myself, so it's quite easy to go…

Trolling means posting something insincere to elicit a response. The point of trolling is to fool the target into investing time and emotion into responding seriously. Insincerity is the defining aspect of trolling, and seeing the victim's response is how the troll gets his kicks. What the asshole kid in this story was definitely stalking, but it wasn't trolling unless he posed as an antisemitic hate-filled stalker f…

I think the terminology has evolved a bit(at least among the younger generation, those who are trolling almost as a hobby), although it might just be me since I don't spend time around communities dedicated for trolling.

Are you aware of Encyclopaedia Dramatica for example? Many of the 4chan stunts are done "in name of trolling" and "for the lulz", when infact they may involve stalking the subject and even physically being in contact. I think in cases like these it's first and foremost a social thing for the "trolls" to stir shit up, the more the better.

Or perhaps I'm just ignorantly stretching the term.

Re: Meeting A Troll

#44

Post by unreal37 »

Interesting. I don't think I would have done the same, and even with time to think long and hard about it, I still would have gone after him with all my might. I don't think letting him off with just a warning is in any sense "justice" nor in the end was the smart choice.

There's something psychotic about harassing someone you know for YEARS, anonymously, in such a vicious way as he did. It's just cruelty on a level akin to torturing dogs for fun. "It was kind of a game" is hardly an excuse. "I will kill you, I will rape your wife, I will do to your wife's dead body..." Sending ashes. Putting dead flowers on the door step. Causing the man to be paranoid in his own house. Causing him to cry over the safety of his family. This is beyond harassment, and lasted daily/weekly over a period of years.

I almost don't believe this is real. How could a psychotic 17-year old be let off with a handshake and a look in the eye? He's going to kill someone someday. I'm stunned.

Re: Meeting A Troll

#45

Post by unreal37 »

knieveltech wrote: post #23

I am truly amazing by this post. What an incredible human being the OP is. If faced with a similar situation I'm quite certain I lack to moral fiber to conduct myself with that level of class. Odds are excellent I would have pasted that kids guts all over the street.

Having someone arrested is not "lack of moral fiber". It may be the opposite - the courage to bring a criminal to justice, testify against them, potentially lose his friendship... What the 17-year old did was vicious and clearly criminal.

Re: Meeting A Troll

#46

Post by jarrett »

zxcdw wrote: post #39
citricsquid wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trolling is short term, it's fucking with someone for the sake of fucking with someone , anyone. If you attack one person over multiple years that becomes more than trolling, it becomes personal. Trolling is not personal. As you say, it's "for the lulz", it's to get a reaction, any reaction. If someone wants a reaction they don't care who from. I've never met anyone that would call years of harassment that extended i…

I am not saying it is not harassment. Though, I don't consider the terms to be orthogonal(as in, they can co-exist within the same context). I am saying it is my understanding that many kids(not all) consider the stuff in the blog post as very successful trolling in fact. The act of trolling, as I see it, is to delibirately cause harm and grief to the victim regardless of means. What differs it from just simply bully…

The term "trolling," as the folks I know use it, doesn't refer to stuff intended to cause harm or grief. Rather, it usually refers to something that would cause fleeting annoyance, or perhaps an eye roll. Or something designed to stir up a tempest in a teapot, e.g. an exaggeratedly controversial forum comment.

What the OP describes wouldn't be called trolling in my social circle. It would be called stalking. I think this goes far beyond a source of lulz.

Re: Meeting A Troll

#47

Post by [deleted] »

Karunamon wrote: post #40
magobarca wrote: post #35

I have to ask. Why was this young man given the opportunity to escape the law despite committing a hate crime. He threatened murder and rape. Would he have been afforded the privilege of a hand shake rather than hand cuffs if he was... say a member of a outgroup, say for example, an Arab?

Because the police were never involved directly. "He" was still legally a child, for one. For two, the author was unbelievably gracious enough to not take him straight to the cops. A happy ending all around, really. Hopefully the teen idiot will have something good come of his counselling and the world will be a slightly better place.

[deleted]

Re: Meeting A Troll

#48

Post by gnarbarian »

magobarca wrote: post #35

I have to ask. Why was this young man given the opportunity to escape the law despite committing a hate crime. He threatened murder and rape. Would he have been afforded the privilege of a hand shake rather than hand cuffs if he was... say a member of a outgroup, say for example, an Arab?

Showing the kid who the bigger man is by forgiving him has a diffusing effect on the situation. It shows compassion and empathy for him, (something the kid initially did not have for the OP). If the kid could produce so much hate out of thin air imagine how angry and hateful he could be if he blamed OP for incarcerating him. (as ass backward that logic is)

Re: Meeting A Troll

#49

Post by jlgreco »

unreal37 wrote: post #44

Interesting. I don't think I would have done the same, and even with time to think long and hard about it, I still would have gone after him with all my might. I don't think letting him off with just a warning is in any sense "justice" nor in the end was the smart choice. There's something psychotic about harassing someone you know for YEARS, anonymously, in such a vicious way as he did. It's just cruelty on a level…

Yeah, I think I would be hard pressed to not report this kid to the cops if only so that I never had to regret not making the police aware of him.
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