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How to Enter a City Like a King

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Re: How to Enter a City Like a King

#41

Post by bluGill »

quacked wrote: post #14

I often think about how much human labor there is available at any given moment, and how in any minute some percentage of "available labor" is bound up doing something. Back in the day, with billions fewer people, you could still bind up some percentage of available labor making beautiful gates for the coronation, or staging mock battles for the king as he passed. Today, I guess people make marketing copy for cat foo…

Why is useful important? Back in the day residents would sometimes get a western good and they would save the packaging (think plastic spray can lids) because it was color unlike the soviet versions. Both worked (well we will assume though cheating putting water in in a cleaning bottle was not unknown when quotas were not met), but consumers want that beauty.

which is to say a lot of needless things are still highly desired.

Re: How to Enter a City Like a King

#42

Post by WalterBright »

xenonite wrote: post #35
quacked wrote: post #14

I often think about how much human labor there is available at any given moment, and how in any minute some percentage of "available labor" is bound up doing something. Back in the day, with billions fewer people, you could still bind up some percentage of available labor making beautiful gates for the coronation, or staging mock battles for the king as he passed. Today, I guess people make marketing copy for cat foo…

Specifically w.r.t to advertising: In socialist contries there is often only one single brand of a certain product. This removes the need for advertising. But without competition, productivity goes south with time.

Socialist products never seem to be competitive in the world market. Nobody wanted to buy Soviet cars outside of the USSR, for example.

Re: How to Enter a City Like a King

#43

Post by WalterBright »

card_zero wrote: post #17
quacked wrote: post #14

I often think about how much human labor there is available at any given moment, and how in any minute some percentage of "available labor" is bound up doing something. Back in the day, with billions fewer people, you could still bind up some percentage of available labor making beautiful gates for the coronation, or staging mock battles for the king as he passed. Today, I guess people make marketing copy for cat foo…

Nobody knows what percentage. Besides, people want more than to be fed, sheltered, and protected from violent attacks. Undoubtedly they are often wrong and want ridiculous pointless things, but nobody knows exactly which things are the wrong things. That's why we have a diverse society of idiots, all trying different things. What intrigues me is that all of it is considered "economic activity", and counts toward GDP…

> people want more than to be fed, sheltered, and protected from violent attacks

People want to be free. Being infantilized by being fed, sheltered, and protected by others rots the soul.

One of the proudest days of my life was when I told my dad I no longer needed any support from him. Unexpectedly, my relationship with him suddenly changed. He started treating me like a man, rather than a child.

Re: How to Enter a City Like a King

#44

Post by quacked »

WalterBright wrote: post #40
quacked wrote: post #14

I often think about how much human labor there is available at any given moment, and how in any minute some percentage of "available labor" is bound up doing something. Back in the day, with billions fewer people, you could still bind up some percentage of available labor making beautiful gates for the coronation, or staging mock battles for the king as he passed. Today, I guess people make marketing copy for cat foo…

The most productive societies are ones where the people are free to do what they want. The more people are regimented and taxed, the less productive they are.

Undoubtedly, but productivity does not directly equate to beauty, health, happiness, satisfaction, morality, civic engagement, justice, etc.

Re: How to Enter a City Like a King

#45

Post by AnimalMuppet »

rurban wrote: post #39
bombcar wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a reference to Jesus entering Jerusalem (Palm Sunday).

But Jesus was executed because he came armed with swords, after spending 2 years in the north building up his group in Lebanon, wanting to overthrow the local priestship. A pretty deviance of his previous pieceful principles.

What? He came armed with swords? (I mean, yes, his followers had two "swords" - which may have been something far less than military swords. One of them used one when Jesus was arrested, and got rebuked for it.)

No, he didn't come to militarily overthrow the priestship.

Re: How to Enter a City Like a King

#46

Post by at-fates-hands »

dragonwriter wrote: post #29
spencerflem wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something like 30% of our GDP is advertising - a pursuit I’d claim not just worthless but actively making everyone else’s life just a little worse. Sports are part of what makes life worth living though :)

> Something like 30% of our GDP is advertising It peaked at under 2.5% of GDP in the late 1990s, and is significantly less now. https://www.stlouisfed.org/on-the-economy/2024/oct/rise-digi...

You're both right, but were thinking in different terms:

As of 2025, advertising is responsible for approximately 21.9% of the total U.S. economic output, according to a study by S&P Global Market Intelligence commissioned by The Advertising Coalition. [prnewswire.com]

Here are some key figures from the study:

Total U.S. GDP (2024): $47.5 trillion

Advertising-driven economic activity: $10.4 trillion

Direct advertising spend: $491 billion

Jobs supported by advertising: 29 million (about 18.3% of the U.S. workforce)

So while direct advertising expenditures account for about 1–2% of GDP, the broader economic impact—including downstream sales and employee spending—brings the total contribution to nearly 22% of GDP.

Re: How to Enter a City Like a King

#47

Post by jncfhnb »

WalterBright wrote: post #42
xenonite wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Specifically w.r.t to advertising: In socialist contries there is often only one single brand of a certain product. This removes the need for advertising. But without competition, productivity goes south with time.

Socialist products never seem to be competitive in the world market. Nobody wanted to buy Soviet cars outside of the USSR, for example.

People seem to like Medicaid just fine though

Re: How to Enter a City Like a King

#48

Post by WalterBright »

jerlam wrote: post #36
card_zero wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody knows what percentage. Besides, people want more than to be fed, sheltered, and protected from violent attacks. Undoubtedly they are often wrong and want ridiculous pointless things, but nobody knows exactly which things are the wrong things. That's why we have a diverse society of idiots, all trying different things. What intrigues me is that all of it is considered "economic activity", and counts toward GDP…

In a very broad sense, essentials like health care and transportation also dramatically increase GDP. In the US, going to the doctor costs a lot more money and dozens of people get paid for coding, insurance, billing, and payments which all do not directly improve the patient's health. People are required to buy cars, fill them with gas, pay for storage, pay tolls, and pay to fix them are also contributing to economi…

> in the same way that building appliances that last forever isn't a good business strategy.

I'd reframe that as people don't want to pay for an appliance that lasts forever.

There are exceptions. Things built for professional use are of a much higher quality. For example, restaurant grade kitchen equipment and appliances are far more durable than consumer ones. Of course, they cost quite a bit more, too.

Re: How to Enter a City Like a King

#49

Post by WalterBright »

moffkalast wrote: post #24
quacked wrote: post #14

I often think about how much human labor there is available at any given moment, and how in any minute some percentage of "available labor" is bound up doing something. Back in the day, with billions fewer people, you could still bind up some percentage of available labor making beautiful gates for the coronation, or staging mock battles for the king as he passed. Today, I guess people make marketing copy for cat foo…

About 1% of people are involved in farming, add a few more percent for food distribution, building maintenance and water bottling and you have your rough answer. Pretty much all of us are doing frivolous nonsense in survival terms.

That frame doesn't account for all the technology and logistical support for farming. For example, where does his tractor come from? You need an industrial society to be able to build tractors, fuel them, etc. You need a transportation network to import oranges from Mexico. And so on.

Without a tractor, there'd be a major percentage of the population working on farms.

Re: How to Enter a City Like a King

#50

Post by card_zero »

bluGill wrote: post #41
quacked wrote: post #14

I often think about how much human labor there is available at any given moment, and how in any minute some percentage of "available labor" is bound up doing something. Back in the day, with billions fewer people, you could still bind up some percentage of available labor making beautiful gates for the coronation, or staging mock battles for the king as he passed. Today, I guess people make marketing copy for cat foo…

Why is useful important? Back in the day residents would sometimes get a western good and they would save the packaging (think plastic spray can lids) because it was color unlike the soviet versions. Both worked (well we will assume though cheating putting water in in a cleaning bottle was not unknown when quotas were not met), but consumers want that beauty. which is to say a lot of needless things are still highly…

I don't know about useful, but right is important. You could imagine if everybody spontaneously started going around doing wrong. To some unclear extent this is what normally happens, and those people doing wrong should stop. It's not even entirely their own business, right and wrong: even when they have property rights on their side, it's still OK for other people to pass comment. And it could be that colored bottle caps are a waste of time and attention, and wrong, and that can be an opinion. But morality doesn't respond well to central management.
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