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Google blocks Android hack that let Pixel users enable VoLTE anywhere

androidauthority.com

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Re: Google blocks Android hack that let Pixel users enable VoLTE anywhere

#41

Post by tsimionescu »

userbinator wrote: post #12

The days of GSM/3G were great. All you needed was a quad-band phone, of which plenty were available from numerous far-East companies but many based on the same or similar chipsets, and you'd have connectivity in the whole world. The situation with LTE is far worse, with several dozen different bands and many opportunities to whitelist and effectively do user-agent discrimination. Even if you bought an unlocked device…

> This is an extremely clear signal of how they think of the user --- as sheep to be corralled and controlled, not as individuals who have control over the devices they bought. The "security" propaganda they continue to spew has been going on for a while, long enough that increasingly more users are now aware of the truth.

While labeling this a security vulnerability is a little weird, it is nevertheless a serious problem for Google, and potentially for the carriers which would allow Google phones. In general, carrier settings have to be enforced by phone manufacturers without relying on the good behavior of phone users, as otherwise the whole cell network can be affected. Now, in this particular case, the impact seems pretty small - though even here this is not 100% clear. For example, if enabling these settings could allow a phone to appear to work for normal use, while actually having major missing functionality such as not being able to receive national alerts or not being able to issue emergency calls, then this is a real risk to the consumer, and shouldn't be allowed.

Re: Google blocks Android hack that let Pixel users enable VoLTE anywhere

#42

Post by tsimionescu »

like_any_other wrote: post #10

> While not documented in the official changelog, Google appears to have quietly patched this particular exploit. So Google and phone carriers conspired to secretly sabotage user devices. Isn't that patch the actual "hack", given that it is undisclosed and against the device owner's wishes? Why are we going along with this deranged pretense that even if you buy something, it still belongs to the manufacturer?

Phones, just like cars, are only allowed to be manufactured and sold to the extent that the manufacturer takes reasonable efforts to prevent end-user misuse of the devices they are selling. This is because phones, just like cars, use and can greatly affect shared public infrastructure - the radio spectrum for phones, public roads for cars. As such, it is natural that there are manufacturer enforced restrictions on end user's use of these devices. Whether this particular case is an overreach of this, or whether there is a real risk to the network from allowing this, I'm not sure.

Re: Google blocks Android hack that let Pixel users enable VoLTE anywhere

#43

Post by immibis »

tsimionescu wrote: post #40
ycombinatrix wrote: post #9

How on earth is this a "vulnerability"? It needed adb shell access.

It allowed anyone with knowledge to use the cell network in ways the operator of the cell network didn't like. This is generally considered a major issue and can attract serious legal repercussions for a radio device maker that doesn't take care to enforce only the allowed uses.

This is the correct answer. Shit flows downhill.

Re: Google blocks Android hack that let Pixel users enable VoLTE anywhere

#44

Post by notpushkin »

tsimionescu wrote: post #38
cortesoft wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, but why block VoWiFi?

That still uses their infrastructure at some point, as you are still using your carrier's phone number when you make a VoWiFi call.

Yeah, but what’s the problem they’re trying to avoid? Bad SIP implementation not working with their servers?

Just text the user: “Hey, you’re using an unsupported VoWiFi stack, if it breaks – that’s on you.”

Re: Google blocks Android hack that let Pixel users enable VoLTE anywhere

#45

Post by pbasista »

I do not see a rational reason why a mobile carrier should have any say in which connectivity technology is enabled for use with its mobile network on a particular phone model.

It should work based on standards, mobile carrier's capabilities and phone's capabilities. If a phone supports capability X, such as VoLTE, then it should just work with all mobile carriers that support that capability. No conditions.

As an imperfect analogy, consider a road, representing a mobile network. This road has some capabilities, such as speed limit. There are cars driving on this road, representing mobile phones. And then consider that a road management company, representing the carrier, would impose different speed limits on different cars, depending on whether they are affiliated with the road management company or not.

Would that be acceptable in a physical world?

If not, we should not accept anything similar in a digital world either.

Re: Google blocks Android hack that let Pixel users enable VoLTE anywhere

#46

Post by notpushkin »

tsimionescu wrote: post #39
like_any_other wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it would have violated local regulations right? First, "local" where? I don't know of any laws making VoLTE devices illegal (..unless blessed by a phone carrier?). If you know of any, feel free to list them, but know that Google has blocked it for all users, globally, not just in the localities where VoLTE is somehow illegal. Second, I don't want Google enforcing the law - contrary to your framing, it would not be…

Your phone has access to the radio spectrum under certain limited conditions, everywhere in the world. People who want to sell devices that can emit in the radio spectrum must make every reasonable effort to not allow the devices they sell to operate outside the conditions. I would bet that carrier contracts and rules around requirements for VoLTE and VoNR are codified in the exact same way. There is no legal right t…

VoLTE is on another layer than the one radio spectrum laws apply to. VoLTE is basically SIP with a special handshake that uses the SIM card instead of the usual username/password. It does not affect radio in any way.

Re: Google blocks Android hack that let Pixel users enable VoLTE anywhere

#47

Post by pjmlp »

pbasista wrote: post #45

I do not see a rational reason why a mobile carrier should have any say in which connectivity technology is enabled for use with its mobile network on a particular phone model. It should work based on standards, mobile carrier's capabilities and phone's capabilities. If a phone supports capability X, such as VoLTE, then it should just work with all mobile carriers that support that capability. No conditions. As an im…

It had been a thing since mobile phones existed.

Pre-paid cards that required paying for unlocking the phone firmware, eventually forbidden on EU countries.

Vodafone famously had their own firmware on Nokia N95 in Germany that disabled tethering,....

It starts by regular people being trained to accept that lack of quality and restrictions are normal in digital world.

Re: Google blocks Android hack that let Pixel users enable VoLTE anywhere

#48

Post by pjmlp »

nikanj wrote: post #37
rs186 wrote: post #20

This phone/carrier nonsense is just stupid. I had lots of trouble with Wi-Fi calling on Android phones: * A phone purchased outside US/unlocked but non mainstream (aka not Samsung/Pixel) phone purchased in the US cannot enable Wi-Fi calling despite having hardware & software support for it, as it's not a supported model * An at&t Samsung phone that is later unlocked cannot enable Wi-Fi calling when using a Visible SI…

Android is the Windows of the phone world. The whole ecosystem is built around selling hardware at margin and making profits with forced installation of McAfee, Candy Crush etc

Which is exactly how netbooks with OEM specific Linux distributions looked like at their end.

OEMs will always go for what provides their differentiation, selling good hardware alone doesn't cut it on their mindset.

Re: Google blocks Android hack that let Pixel users enable VoLTE anywhere

#49

Post by bluesign »

pbasista wrote: post #45

I do not see a rational reason why a mobile carrier should have any say in which connectivity technology is enabled for use with its mobile network on a particular phone model. It should work based on standards, mobile carrier's capabilities and phone's capabilities. If a phone supports capability X, such as VoLTE, then it should just work with all mobile carriers that support that capability. No conditions. As an im…

I think it depends; speculating but probably volte is a very complicated spec with many optional enhancements ( think ssl with cipher types )

So carrier can choose to whitelist/blacklist phones depending on extensions available

Re: Google blocks Android hack that let Pixel users enable VoLTE anywhere

#50

Post by djmips »

tsimionescu wrote: post #41
userbinator wrote: post #12

The days of GSM/3G were great. All you needed was a quad-band phone, of which plenty were available from numerous far-East companies but many based on the same or similar chipsets, and you'd have connectivity in the whole world. The situation with LTE is far worse, with several dozen different bands and many opportunities to whitelist and effectively do user-agent discrimination. Even if you bought an unlocked device…

> This is an extremely clear signal of how they think of the user --- as sheep to be corralled and controlled, not as individuals who have control over the devices they bought. The "security" propaganda they continue to spew has been going on for a while, long enough that increasingly more users are now aware of the truth. While labeling this a security vulnerability is a little weird, it is nevertheless a serious pr…

you're not going to be able to receive National alerts or make emergency calls if your phone can't make calls period...
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