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Regarding the Compact

president.mit.edu

41–50 of 203 posts

Re: Regarding the Compact

#41

This seems like a reasonable response by MIT. I’m struggling to understand where the core disagreement lies though. Would someone who is opposed to this “compact” care to explain their view? I’m not interested in baseless name-calling (“fascist” etc) but I am interested in cogent reasoning. I didn’t read the compact itself, but I did read the wikipedia article about it, and it seems to be a very positive set of crite…

I did read the Compact and had a similar response: "This all sounds very reasonable". I think the negative reaction to it is mostly a function of who is pushing it.

It’s the usual trick of writing something so that an uninterested reader assuming the common meaning of words will be completely nonplussed, but a lawyer or judge reading such a document adversarially will reach many unexpected conclusions.

Re: Regarding the Compact

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did read the Compact and had a similar response: "This all sounds very reasonable". I think the negative reaction to it is mostly a function of who is pushing it.

It’s the usual trick of writing something so that an uninterested reader assuming the common meaning of words will be completely nonplussed, but a lawyer or judge reading such a document adversarially will reach many unexpected conclusions.

"nonplussed" means "bewildered" or "really confused". Maybe you mean "not worried"?

If you mean "not worried", then yeah, I bet you're right that there are a bunch of things that could be entailed by the language that aren't obvious. Good point.

Re: Regarding the Compact

#43

I am affiliated and have been affiliated with several top universities, including the two in Cambridge, MA. I'm an academic. I say that because this stuff directly affects my career prospects. The Compact itself can be found here: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/1... It's short, I ask that you read it before commenting. It's too bad MIT has taken this stance. I think the Compact is overall…

> obviously reasonable, good-faith effort to improve universities in the United States

I really find HN to be a truly surreal place at this time.

Re: Regarding the Compact

#44

This seems like a reasonable response by MIT. I’m struggling to understand where the core disagreement lies though. Would someone who is opposed to this “compact” care to explain their view? I’m not interested in baseless name-calling (“fascist” etc) but I am interested in cogent reasoning. I didn’t read the compact itself, but I did read the wikipedia article about it, and it seems to be a very positive set of crite…

Let’s focus on #2: Marketplace of Ideas and Civil Discourse. > Signatories commit themselves to revising governance structures as necessary to create such an environment, including but not limited to transforming or abolishing institutional units that purposefully punish, belittle, and even spark violence against conservative ideas. Only conservative ideas receive protected status under this compact. Why? It is objec…

> How any Islamic student group, no matter how explicitly pro-Israel and pro-Christianity, survives this definition is a real question.

This is a disingenuous example, Islamic student groups are not anti-capitalist, anti-American, or anti-Christian, and giving an example like this only creates FUD.

Re: Regarding the Compact

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s the usual trick of writing something so that an uninterested reader assuming the common meaning of words will be completely nonplussed, but a lawyer or judge reading such a document adversarially will reach many unexpected conclusions.

"nonplussed" means "bewildered" or "really confused". Maybe you mean "not worried"? If you mean "not worried", then yeah, I bet you're right that there are a bunch of things that could be entailed by the language that aren't obvious. Good point.

“Nonplussed” also means “unfazed, unaffected, or unimpressed.”

A bit like “cleave” in that way.

But yes, you read me correctly.

Re: Regarding the Compact

#46
This tells you who really wears the pants in the relationship. Western nations are screwed because their bedrock is enlightenment, but their adversaries have no such ideals to be held up to. The rule of law that many such organizations enjoy in the West would be denied to them in places their faculty members defend. It’s important to reflect on what works well while trying to fix what doesn’t; discourse often neglects or downplays the former.

Re: Regarding the Compact

#47
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let’s focus on #2: Marketplace of Ideas and Civil Discourse. > Signatories commit themselves to revising governance structures as necessary to create such an environment, including but not limited to transforming or abolishing institutional units that purposefully punish, belittle, and even spark violence against conservative ideas. Only conservative ideas receive protected status under this compact. Why? It is objec…

> How any Islamic student group, no matter how explicitly pro-Israel and pro-Christianity, survives this definition is a real question. This is a disingenuous example, Islamic student groups are not anti-capitalist, anti-American, or anti-Christian, and giving an example like this only creates FUD.

To you and me they are not, but to this administration I wouldn't be surprised if they were considered as such.

Re: Regarding the Compact

#48

This seems like a reasonable response by MIT. I’m struggling to understand where the core disagreement lies though. Would someone who is opposed to this “compact” care to explain their view? I’m not interested in baseless name-calling (“fascist” etc) but I am interested in cogent reasoning. I didn’t read the compact itself, but I did read the wikipedia article about it, and it seems to be a very positive set of crite…

It is not baseless name-calling to dub someone a "fascist" when they exhibit all the well-known signs of fascism.

There's too much pussyfooting around it these days. Trump is a fascist, as are the upper echelons of his administration.

If people had been willing to say this in 2016, maybe he wouldn't have been elected twice, to all of our detriment.

Re: Regarding the Compact

#49

This seems like a reasonable response by MIT. I’m struggling to understand where the core disagreement lies though. Would someone who is opposed to this “compact” care to explain their view? I’m not interested in baseless name-calling (“fascist” etc) but I am interested in cogent reasoning. I didn’t read the compact itself, but I did read the wikipedia article about it, and it seems to be a very positive set of crite…

Try considering the opposite situation. Suppose Biden or Obama sent a mandate to universities making unilateral and ideologically-motivated demands of their curriculum, policies, and practices. Everyone cool with that scenario? Or, does each new presidential administration get to impose their will on institutions of higher learning? What would that be like?

Re: Regarding the Compact

#50

This seems like a reasonable response by MIT. I’m struggling to understand where the core disagreement lies though. Would someone who is opposed to this “compact” care to explain their view? I’m not interested in baseless name-calling (“fascist” etc) but I am interested in cogent reasoning. I didn’t read the compact itself, but I did read the wikipedia article about it, and it seems to be a very positive set of crite…

My main objections are to the following points:

- Specifically calling out protecting "conservative ideas" in their section on creating an "intellectually open campus environment". This is a dog whistle that makes it patently clear which viewpoints will be protected, and which won't. See what happened to Mahmoud Khalil for a recent example of how this will work in practice.

- Preventing admissions of foreign students based on "hostility to America or our allies", which is obviously an attempt to silence dissent. Who is responsible for defining what "hostility" means? If a foreign student supports boycotting Israel due to their ongoing genocide against the Palestinian people, would they be barred from admission to an American university?

I would contend that threatening to annex Canada and Greenland constitutes "hostility to American allies", but since those talking points are being espoused by the sitting president, it stands to reason that this administration's justice department wouldn't intervene to prevent a potential student with similar views from from admitted to an American school.

- Forcing institutions to define bathroom usage criteria based on biological sex. Putting aside for a moment the fact that this is a blatant attempt to humiliate trans people -- how does this work in practice? Do you hire someone to stand at every bathroom door and prevent people from entering if they don't fit your notion of what that gender is "supposed" to look like? Do you demand identity documents before letting someone use the toilet?

There are plenty of videos online of cisgender people being accosted in the bathroom that aligns with their biological sex simply because other people _assume_ based on their appearance that they are trans.

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