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'Obedient, yielding and happy to follow': the troubling rise of AI girlfriends

theguardian.com

41–50 of 79 posts

Re: 'Obedient, yielding and happy to follow': the troubling rise of AI girlfriends

#41
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The willingness to live in make believe, and the willingness to treat that make believe as if it were reality. Everyone acts on fictions every day, some are just socially acceptable. Like, do you think countries and currency really exist, or are they really just collective fictions we find useful?

You make a very good example of exactly what I'm talking about. Countries are indeed fictional, and the misplaced belief that they are in some way a natural reality is a significant part of what leads people to start talking about killing each other in the name of their country. Fictional entities aren't just ubiquitous, they're essential to civilization. Even laws against murder are fictional entities, but I don't t…

> Countries are indeed fictional, and the misplaced belief that they are in some way a natural reality is a significant part of what leads people to start talking about killing each other in the name of their country.

No, people kill each other because others have things they want, countries are just a means of organizing such endeavours, but let's not go on that tangent.

The point of accepting that we all depend on fictions shows that real vs. fictional is not a meaningful measure of healthy vs. unhealthy, and the latter is what we should actually care about, not the former.

> Thinking a fictional character on your computer screen is a life relationship partner is a slip away from reality that is surely a mental illness.

You're just arguing for fictions that are the status quo as if they're "healthy" without having to do the hard work of proving they're actually healthy, or the new "virtual" thing is actually harmful.

The distinction of real vs. fiction is simply not relevant, what's healthy or unhealthy is what's relevant, but you don't get to call it unhealthy without empirical evidence to support such an assertion which is why you're trying to fall back on calling it "not real", and leaving "not real implies unhealthy" implicit. Except "not real implies unhealthy" is false.

Re: 'Obedient, yielding and happy to follow': the troubling rise of AI girlfriends

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The willingness to live in make believe, and the willingness to treat that make believe as if it were reality. Everyone acts on fictions every day, some are just socially acceptable. Like, do you think countries and currency really exist, or are they really just collective fictions we find useful?

Religions. Corporations. Legal authority. All exist only because we believe in them. You could go to the extreme and say that every relationship exists in two copies. One in the mind of the first member and the other in the mind of the second. Ai relationships are different because they don’t exist in the mind of the ai. There’s no mind there’s an architecture that does not even attempt to simulate a mind.

> Ai relationships are different because they don’t exist in the mind of the ai. There’s no mind there’s an architecture that does not even attempt to simulate a mind.

Even setting aside the question of AI minds, I fully accept that an AI relationship is different. How does it then obviously follow that this is bad or unhealthy for the human though? This part just doesn't follow from anything stated thus far.

The other fictions that we've normalized can be both bad and good, depending on the circumstances.

Re: 'Obedient, yielding and happy to follow': the troubling rise of AI girlfriends

#43

It's just AI porn, not AI girlfriends. The article trying to sell what the developers themselves describe as a replacement to cam-girls as AI girlfriends is just stupid clickbait.(anyone who has tried to solve long term memory with LLMs knows we just aren't there yet in terms of long term persistent characters/personality with memory that don't just hallucinate non stop) Who cares of people use AI generated porn inst…

related: Felicia Day's Do You Wanna Date My Avatar?

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=date-my-avatar&iar=videos

Re: 'Obedient, yielding and happy to follow': the troubling rise of AI girlfriends

#44
post #39

At the risk of being downvoted, the dating scene in america is terrible. Masculinity in western societies is heavily pathologized to the point that men who aren't 6ft and very good looking have the deck heavily stacked against them. I can't blame men for turning to AI girlfriends. I myself left the united states and couldn't be happier. There are plenty of countries where its easy to meet women and end up in a relati…

> Masculinity in western societies is heavily pathologized to the point that men who aren't 6ft and very good looking have the deck heavily stacked against them I always find this fascinating because almost all of the women I’ve known complain about the challenges of finding men who respect them, do their share of the housework, etc. With one exception, everyone I’ve heard saying 6 feet and a six pack are mandatory w…

The issue is two-fold: men/women want women/men they can't get, and they don't want the women/men they can get.

Re: 'Obedient, yielding and happy to follow': the troubling rise of AI girlfriends

#45
post #31

And AI boyfriends for females. If you check apps like character.ai or similar there is a huge roster of male AI characters to chat with. I think this is less skewed for male users than the porn content. It's a cliché but men want sex and women want romance.

Romance novels are porn. Go to a bookstore and pick up something like "Love's Tender Fury", or "Fury's Tender Love", or "Tender Love's Fury". Open it to 2/3 of the way through. There will be a six-page sex scene. There are how-to guides on writing that stuff. That industry is probably going to be crushed by AI-generated romance novels. Although someone needs to figure out how to keep long-form AI writing on plot. LLM…

How can a novel compete with an interactive character that provides a roleplay conversation "a la carte" adjusting to the user and their preferences?

You want a dominant partner, maybe an initialy cold guy that hides his passionate heart, or just the sweetest more caring girlfriend in the world...? You can have it, just describing what you want in a simple text prompt.

Now let's jump ahead and imagine something a little more intelligent that adapts to the to user. Maybe 100% caring but just a little cold on specific days... with a little pinch of a fight and the following making up... a perfect storm of emotional adiction (and a lot of money to be made)

I'm both horrified and curious about the future that is coming.

Re: 'Obedient, yielding and happy to follow': the troubling rise of AI girlfriends

#46
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you suppose the goal of feminism is?

Making societial changes that benefit women?

That's actually one of the methods to achieve the goal of gender equality and the liberation of women from restrictive gender roles.

If those goals were ever achieved, the need to make those societal changes would vanish.

Re: 'Obedient, yielding and happy to follow': the troubling rise of AI girlfriends

#47
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Romance novels are porn. Go to a bookstore and pick up something like "Love's Tender Fury", or "Fury's Tender Love", or "Tender Love's Fury". Open it to 2/3 of the way through. There will be a six-page sex scene. There are how-to guides on writing that stuff. That industry is probably going to be crushed by AI-generated romance novels. Although someone needs to figure out how to keep long-form AI writing on plot. LLM…

How can a novel compete with an interactive character that provides a roleplay conversation "a la carte" adjusting to the user and their preferences? You want a dominant partner, maybe an initialy cold guy that hides his passionate heart, or just the sweetest more caring girlfriend in the world...? You can have it, just describing what you want in a simple text prompt. Now let's jump ahead and imagine something a lit…

I think they disputed your claim:

> It's a cliché but men want sex and women want romance.

...suggesting you actually check what the "romance" actually is :)

Re: 'Obedient, yielding and happy to follow': the troubling rise of AI girlfriends

#48
post #36

I don’t get why feminists are opposed to the idea of AI girlfriends. If it makes some men stop bothering real women, isn’t it a win?

If these men will stop needing women then no, it's not the _right kind of ein_ :)

Re: 'Obedient, yielding and happy to follow': the troubling rise of AI girlfriends

#49
post #39

At the risk of being downvoted, the dating scene in america is terrible. Masculinity in western societies is heavily pathologized to the point that men who aren't 6ft and very good looking have the deck heavily stacked against them. I can't blame men for turning to AI girlfriends. I myself left the united states and couldn't be happier. There are plenty of countries where its easy to meet women and end up in a relati…

> Masculinity in western societies is heavily pathologized to the point that men who aren't 6ft and very good looking have the deck heavily stacked against them I always find this fascinating because almost all of the women I’ve known complain about the challenges of finding men who respect them, do their share of the housework, etc. With one exception, everyone I’ve heard saying 6 feet and a six pack are mandatory w…

yes, a lot of my american female friends say the same thing. But then I see them regularly turn down descent guys for super good looking guys who never commit because they have options. (not having 6 pack abs is rarely a dealbreaker but being less than 6 feet tall definitly is)

In short, what they say and what they do don't always line up.

EDIT: and thats not to say there aren't plenty of women who have realistic ideas of what to expect from men and do value men who are respectful, help with chores etc while not being george cloony. But they are all happily in relationships so they aren't complaining about men in general either.

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