Live data from Hacker News

Europe Can No Longer Ignore That It's Under Russian Attack

worldpoliticsreview.com

41–50 of 203 posts

Re: Europe Can No Longer Ignore That It's Under Russian Attack

#41
post #31

That’s some far fetched piece (based on what is above the paywall). For jets argument you must first understand where Kaliningrad is: something akin to Alaska for US — open the map to see what European countries are invariably in between. Even if they crossed momentarily the air border (though there was no objective visual proof from either side, which is why the story died), supersonic jet is not like crusing at 20…

Don't you believe those were russian drones intentionally sent?

Re: Europe Can No Longer Ignore That It's Under Russian Attack

#42

How do you (especially Europeans) understand this move from Russia? Can it really sustain a war against us? Does it want to break NATO by proving the US won't move?

What move, you mean about the drones? I first want to be sure about what happened. Remember that few years ago you were still being labeled as "Russian propaganda" if you had doubts about the NS incident.

(NS = nord stream gas pipes)

Re: Europe Can No Longer Ignore That It's Under Russian Attack

#43
post #25

Europe should be leading the diplomatic efforts towards Russia, not the US. This sort of rhetorics leads nowhere useful.

This is a joke, right? Diplomacy is something Russians completely disregard, lie about, and only agree to do when they are the only one benefiting, and even then only until they decide to break whatever agreements were made, because they've done so every single time so far. How do you have any diplomacy with someone like that? You can't.

Re: Europe Can No Longer Ignore That It's Under Russian Attack

#44

Europe is buying billions of Russian gas and petrochemicals. https://energyandcleanair.org/financing-putins-war/ The first step when finding yourself in a hole is to stop digging.

Except they can't. Europe is struggling with soaring energy costs and a lack of alternatives. Whether it's red tape or unfortunate geography, Europe cannot afford to turn off the Russian gas tap. A benevolent US would see this and find ways to bridge the gap for Europe and lower its energy costs, further choking Russia. A less benevolent US would see this and encourage it to continue, weakening both parties and sowin…

I don't know what kind of "lowering" you are referring to, but the US is selling more gas than ever to the EU:

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/us-lng-exports-surge...

Re: Europe Can No Longer Ignore That It's Under Russian Attack

#45

No one listened, no one prepared. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Munich_speech_of_Vladim... It’s not like there was any warning signs… https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17 Bullies exploit weaknesses. Time to grow a pair.

In 2007 and later everybody in Europe understood that russia is basically in the toilet and they can't do anything offensive that won't make them hurt themselves terribly. The only thing is nobody, except Eastern European countries, imagined is that russia is stupid enough to do it anyways.

Re: Europe Can No Longer Ignore That It's Under Russian Attack

#46
post #17

I am not sure what European "leaders" expected. Many of them support Ukraine militarily in the war, so yes, EU is in fact in war with Russia, through Ukraine as a proxy. I oppose the military support to Ukraine. I think it's responsibility of the stronger party, here NATO, to seek deescalation. I also disapprove that the military support for Ukraine was decided undemocratically, without any consideration whether this…

I think if Europe was actually at war with Russia, Moscow would have been reduced to rubble. They talk a big game, but their economy is smaller than Italy's!

With a huge nuclear arsenal. So I doubt Moscow would be reduced to rubble, unless everything else was too.

Re: Europe Can No Longer Ignore That It's Under Russian Attack

#47
post #17

I am not sure what European "leaders" expected. Many of them support Ukraine militarily in the war, so yes, EU is in fact in war with Russia, through Ukraine as a proxy. I oppose the military support to Ukraine. I think it's responsibility of the stronger party, here NATO, to seek deescalation. I also disapprove that the military support for Ukraine was decided undemocratically, without any consideration whether this…

Not sure how you came to the idea that supporting Ukraine militarily has been decided undemocratically...

Every European nation can and has made their own decision on this matter. Spain, Portugal, Italy, some Balkan countries have contributed a lot less. Hungary, who are in NATO, have almost contributed zilch.

Thinking that de-escalating the war as-is giving Russia the strategic victory is a very dangerous thought. This will destabilize the Northern and Eastern parts of Europe, which we definitely can not let happen.

Re: Europe Can No Longer Ignore That It's Under Russian Attack

#48
post #31

That’s some far fetched piece (based on what is above the paywall). For jets argument you must first understand where Kaliningrad is: something akin to Alaska for US — open the map to see what European countries are invariably in between. Even if they crossed momentarily the air border (though there was no objective visual proof from either side, which is why the story died), supersonic jet is not like crusing at 20…

Don't you believe those were russian drones intentionally sent?

It’s in the realm of probability but very thin for me. As always: the means, the benefits. How would Russia benefit?

> EU leaders meeting in Copenhagen backed plans to strengthen European defenses, including a proposed "drone wall," after recent drone incursions over Denmark raised fears of Russian hybrid attacks. Officials said the initiative would focus on eastern airspace protection and sit alongside projects for eastern flank security, missile defense, and a space-based shield . Leaders also began a first formal debate on using frozen Russian assets in Europe to fund aid for Ukraine.

Ah, those sweet-sweet frozen assets. Also see how this piece implies Russian without any proof.

Also the more you fear monger the EU population, the more you can continue the war: which is money for some elites; redeemeer of economic recession for others, etc.: war is universal resetter for social/economic issues.

Re: Europe Can No Longer Ignore That It's Under Russian Attack

#49
post #17

I am not sure what European "leaders" expected. Many of them support Ukraine militarily in the war, so yes, EU is in fact in war with Russia, through Ukraine as a proxy. I oppose the military support to Ukraine. I think it's responsibility of the stronger party, here NATO, to seek deescalation. I also disapprove that the military support for Ukraine was decided undemocratically, without any consideration whether this…

What was undemocratic about the decisions to support Ukraine?

To my knowledge, these things are never put forward as an election topic or referendum. There is no discussion with citizens, it's always a fait accompli, we have to do it for national security sort of thing.

The blowback is not discussed. I am from Czechia, and Russians attacked Vrbětice munition factory, because it supplied Ukraine. That's the reason. But in media it's always portrayed without this context.

FWIW, I am not opposed to humanitarian and economic help to Ukraine. But I don't believe military support will end the war in a good way, whatever it means.

Re: Europe Can No Longer Ignore That It's Under Russian Attack

#50
post #17

I am not sure what European "leaders" expected. Many of them support Ukraine militarily in the war, so yes, EU is in fact in war with Russia, through Ukraine as a proxy. I oppose the military support to Ukraine. I think it's responsibility of the stronger party, here NATO, to seek deescalation. I also disapprove that the military support for Ukraine was decided undemocratically, without any consideration whether this…

Russia is the aggressor in this war; if it stopped its aggression and withdrew from Ukraine, the war would stop. So the responsibility for deescalating falls squarely on Russia. Russia has no intention to stop; on the contrary it is ramping up the production of military equipment. As only military means can stop a military aggression, it makes every sense for European leaders to support Ukraine militarily. If anything, European leaders deserve criticism for not supporting Ukraine enough.
Post reply on HN