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John Jumper: AI is revolutionizing scientific discovery [video]

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Re: John Jumper: AI is revolutionizing scientific discovery [video]

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This would be lend more credibility to the premise AI is revolutionizing scientific discovery if it came from someone who's Nobel (or work in general) were in a non-AI-centered domain. No it wouldn't. I've seen anti-AI people try to make this sort of argument repeatedly and it doesn't make any sense. It's an attempt to smuggle in an ad-hominem. It's relying on the fact that people who hate AI also hate people who w…

It is not at all an ad hominem. Disclosure of interests and conflicts for interest were assumed to be declared in the open even a decade ago. Carter sold his peanut farm to avoid conflicts of interest, Trump launched a coin pump & dump on his first day. If a Nobel Prize winner works for a corporation, that should be disclosed (the original title contained "Nobel Prize Laureate" instead of "DeepMind Director"). But I…

You are making a completely different point than the person I'm responding to. An equally bad point, but a different point nonetheless.

His title is in the video thumbnail.

> But I suppose that in the current age where everyone just wants to get rich these courtesies no longer matter.

Surely you agree this is a veiled ad hominem

Re: John Jumper: AI is revolutionizing scientific discovery [video]

#43
post #18
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

HN doesn't have a Youtube channel, and please don't cross into personal attack. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Your right, is Y Combinator youtube channel, the company that host HN.

https://www.youtube.com/@ycombinator

Re: John Jumper: AI is revolutionizing scientific discovery [video]

#44
post #3

[flagged]

> Literally no one who is not connected to the "AI" industrial complex praises "AI".

Why lying when one can easily find examples of exactly that?

1) https://www.ecmwf.int/en/about/media-centre/news/2025/ecmwfs...

2) https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11510778/

But I’m sure you could find the connections to the AI industry complex somehow.

Re: John Jumper: AI is revolutionizing scientific discovery [video]

#46

I am reposting something along the lines of a flagged and dead comment: This would be lend more credibility to the premise AI is revolutionizing scientific discovery if it came from someone who's Nobel (or work in general) were in a non-AI-centered domain. This is not a critique of his speech or points, but I think the lead implied by the (especially Youtube) title would hit harder if it came from someone whose work…

> This would be lend more credibility to the premise AI is revolutionizing scientific discovery if it came from someone who's Nobel (or work in general) were in a non-AI-centered domain. No it wouldn't. I've seen anti-AI people try to make this sort of argument repeatedly and it doesn't make any sense. It's an attempt to smuggle in an ad-hominem. It's relying on the fact that people who hate AI also hate people who w…

Hey! I think I misused words, or was otherwise unclear. Sorry about that. I'm not Anti-AI and don't hate AI or people who work on it. I don't mean to conflate my post with someone who is Anti-AI. No ad-hominem intended.

Re: John Jumper: AI is revolutionizing scientific discovery [video]

#47

I'll share something as a former solar researcher. Scientific progress is heavily influenced by how many bodies you can throw at a problem. The more experiments you can run, with more variety and angles the more data you can get, the higher the likelihood of a breakthrough. Several huge scientist are famous not because they are geniuses, but because they are great fundraisers and can have 20/30/50 bodies to throw at…

> But given that LLMs cannot interact with the real world What type of interaction do you envision? Could a non-domain-expert, but somewhat trained person provide a bridge? If the LLM comes up with the big ideas and tells a human technical assistant to execute (put the vial here, run the 3D printer with this file, put the object there, drive in a screw), would that help? But dexterous robots are getting more and more…

Someone needs to evaluate the big ideas spat out by the llm is the big issue. Lab work can already be automated. And bs holders are even cheaper than an automated machine.

Re: John Jumper: AI is revolutionizing scientific discovery [video]

#48

I'll share something as a former solar researcher. Scientific progress is heavily influenced by how many bodies you can throw at a problem. The more experiments you can run, with more variety and angles the more data you can get, the higher the likelihood of a breakthrough. Several huge scientist are famous not because they are geniuses, but because they are great fundraisers and can have 20/30/50 bodies to throw at…

I agree that there is power in numbers for science, but not all science is lab work. Sometimes the bottleneck is purely computational.

Computational can be a huge bottleneck. Some steps they really do take dozens of hours to run on cluster. And you are not the main character, others might be using the cluster and your jobs might be waiting in a queue. You might not be able to appreciate parameters need adjustment until the run is over and you evaluate output.

Another delay point is getting collaborators schedules to align for meetings on progress or potential directions.

Placing the results in context takes some time but not so much as you might guess if you are constantly reading and writing sourced paragraphs and skeleton papers needing only results plopped in when they are ready and some exposition in the discussion section.

Writing the code might be the fastest step in the process already.

Re: John Jumper: AI is revolutionizing scientific discovery [video]

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Um, okay? Isn't that how most optimisation involving AI is supposed to go? Perhaps some much needed context. Mathematicians are not stupid; we are very much aware of all the existing forms of genetic optimisation algorithms, cross entropy method, etc. Nothing works on these problems, or at least not well at scale. As I said, state of the art for many of these was SAT-related. The problem is that the heuristic used fo…

Apologies I didn’t mean to be cocky / dismissive. It’s just that the paper cited is no different than any other paper in the meta-heuristic community. Some idea for guiding the local search. Some limited sample results. No promises on bounds or generalizability of the method. If this is ground breaking, then every legitimate meta heuristic paper in the past 50 years was also ground breaking. I will change my mind if…

So for reference, I am a mathematician, I work in probability theory. I don't work in optimisation theory, but saw a talk a few days ago by a prominent member in that field ranting about the obsession with pointless bounds when industry does not care, Gurobi team does not care, and for OR, NN-centric heuristics coupled with massive GPU compute are eating the lunch of academia. But I digress.

The key difference is that this one approach (and the improvements that follow up on it) seems to be generating counterexamples and sharper estimates at such a rapid speed that they simply can't publish them fast enough. It almost seems pointless to do so given how easy they now are to find. Mathematicians are not stupid, we know about meta-heuristics. It takes forever to get a single result with existing techniques, so long that each result is often its own paper. Getting everything in the PatternBoost paper took a few months, as I understand. Local search is problem-specific, but the point is that the NN is doing a lot of heavy-lifting so the choice of local search is not as critical.

Here is a frivolous example mentioned in the paper itself: largest subset of a 2D lattice with no embedded isosceles triangle. For larger lattices (I don't remember the exact size under consideration), SoTA are SAT solvers which work up to n=32. Previous meta-heuristics cannot even do this, of course, you can try if you don't believe me. PatternBoost has just recently gotten to ~96% of the expected size for n=64 and is still improving by the day. Once it reaches 100%, there are techniques to show local optimality. Does this work as a benchmark? There are plenty more in there and unpublished.

For more serious cases that are difficult to explain here, the group in Sydney have counterexamples to hundreds of graph-theory and rep. theory conjectures that have stood for many decades. I also disagree on the "no different" aspect; Geordie Williamson is a very strong mathematician, and does not tend to jump on trivial things. He is very receptive to discussion on these matters, so you can ask him yourself how this is actually a game-changer downstream.

Yes, it is a meta-heuristic. But almost all meta-heuristics have been useless so far for these problems. This one is not, and for the people downstream, that's really all that matters.

Re: John Jumper: AI is revolutionizing scientific discovery [video]

#50
post #43
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN doesn't have a Youtube channel, and please don't cross into personal attack. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Your right, is Y Combinator youtube channel, the company that host HN. https://www.youtube.com/@ycombinator

I'm more concerned about the personal attack part.
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