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ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

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Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#41

Post by roywiggins »

simonw wrote: post #20
bigyabai wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You kind of quickly end up in some weird dystopian cyberpunk setting thinking all of this through. The most dystopian concept out of everything you mentioned is still "you can't install unsigned software" to me.

Good luck preventing people from loading up a web page that runs a pure JavaScript (or WebAssembly) implementation of common cryptography algorithms and lets people copy and paste each other encrypted messages.

Chat Control wants to require on-device scanning, so if this becomes common they can move to mandating scanning at the OS or browser level as well.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#42

Post by zamadatix »

okanat wrote: post #17
contravariant wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The accepted solution is to have a constitution that says otherwise. Which is a bit complicated here, as the EU has no real constitution and this 'law' (really a regulation) is a blatant violation of the constitutions of countries that did choose to establish secrecy of correspondence.

EU has the Charter of Fundamental rights which is a part of the Treaty of Lisbon which is the constitutional basis of EU: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_of_Fundamental_Right... In the charter, the protection of personal data and privacy is a recognized right. So chat control is also probably against the EU law.

I'm not familiar with EU law, but reading Title II article 7 and 8 makes me feel this could be an optimistic interpretation of what the Treaty of Lisbon guarantees. I'm sure the supporters of chat control would love to argue something like "ChatControl respects the private communications of an individual by protecting how the data is processed to ensure only the legitimate basis of processing the data is incurred by the law" in court.

I would hope the EU courts would disagree, but I'm not sure if anyone can say until it's tested directly.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#43

Post by raincole »

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #12
haolez wrote: post #3

I think the challenge for society here is not to simply reject attempts like this, but how to prevent them from being pushed over and over until a specific context allows it to be approved.

There are no solutions to that which wouldn't sound absurd. But if you could get past absurdity... Politicians should agree to to be executed if they lose an election. Only those willing to risk their lives should be allowed to legislate. This also gives the voters the option of punishing those who pass onerous laws at the next election. If you need extra zing, this would also apply to recall elections, so they could…

Yeah let's ensure only the craziest, most desperate for power type to be the regulators.

Hitler knew if he had lost, he would have been executed. Didn't stop him from going war.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#45

Post by lovelearning »

Is CSA really that widespread in Europe that everyone's chat messages have to be monitored? And if it is that widespread, shouldn't they try to address it socially to prevent CSA as much as possible rather than try to catch just the subset of tech-savvy abusers, that too after they've already committed CSA?

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#46

Post by delusional »

haolez wrote: post #3

I think the challenge for society here is not to simply reject attempts like this, but how to prevent them from being pushed over and over until a specific context allows it to be approved.

> prevent them from being pushed over and over

Solve the problem it's trying to solve, then it won't be proposed again.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#47

Post by raverbashing »

_t9ow wrote: post #13
contravariant wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The accepted solution is to have a constitution that says otherwise. Which is a bit complicated here, as the EU has no real constitution and this 'law' (really a regulation) is a blatant violation of the constitutions of countries that did choose to establish secrecy of correspondence.

> The accepted solution is to have a constitution that says otherwise And the willingness and ability to enforce it. The current iteration of ChatControl is pushed by Denmark, which is at present the President of the Council of the European Union. The Danish Constitution itself enshrines the right to privacy of communication [0], but this is not stopping Denmark from wanting to ratify ChatControl anyway. [0]: https:/…

Yes but unfortunately courts are mostly reactive, not proactive

Sometimes there are some mechanisms to block unconstitutional (or other regulation) laws from passing but they're limited

Not sure how that would apply at the EU level or even at the Danish level

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#48

Post by Imustaskforhelp »

pjmlp wrote: post #25
contravariant wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The accepted solution is to have a constitution that says otherwise. Which is a bit complicated here, as the EU has no real constitution and this 'law' (really a regulation) is a blatant violation of the constitutions of countries that did choose to establish secrecy of correspondence.

As shown on the other side of Atlantic that is worthless when no one upholds the constitution.

I think of constitution as a contract between the citizens and the state and the (judiciary?)

Like, constitution both defines the rights of citizens and the limits of those rights and the same goes for the states.

I feel as if the creators of constitutions think that it is a set of checks and balances...

Just as if how a citizen violates something written in the constitution, the state can punish it.

In the same manner, I believe that the constitution thought that if the state violates some constitutional right of citizen, then citizens can point that out and (punish?) the state as the legitimacy of state is through that constitution which they might be breaking...

I concur (fancy word for believe which I wanted to share lol) you are talking about america. The thing is, revolutions are often messy and so much things are happening in america that I think that people are just overwhelmed and have even forgotten all the stuff happening in the past... Like tarrifs were huge thing, then epstein news then this I think autism thing by trump.

Like, the amount of political discourse is happening less and idk, oh shit, just remembered the uh person deporting thing which was illegal which was done anyway

If these things happened in isolation, they would all have huge actions against govt. but they are happening back to back and so everyone's just kinda silent I think, frankly I believe overwhelmed.

I believe that just as in nepal, in america everyone is whining on social media but nobody's taking action. Nepal blocked social media and so people in nepal were kinda forced to take action irl and it worked kinda nice in the end tbh

So maybe its social media which is enabling this thing.... which is funny to me as I am doing the same thing right now lol

All for sweet internet points tho.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#49

Post by roywiggins »

croes wrote: post #32

I guess they don’t know you can encrypt files before you send them. They don’t even have to look like encrypted files.

Chat Control imagines your device being required to scan and report on all your plaintext.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#50

Post by __loam »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #44
randomNumber7 wrote: post #29

What would prevent me from writing my own program to do something simple like sending encrypted messages? Or just emails...

Good luck being a DOD contractor overseas, wtf?

Good luck having a bank account
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