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Google and Alibaba Continue Warring Over Acer Phone

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Re: Google and Alibaba Continue Warring Over Acer Phone

#41

Post by josephlord »

donniezazen wrote: post #38
recoiledsnake wrote: post #5

Andy Rubin: >So there’s really no disputing that Aliyun is based on the Android platform and takes advantage of all the hard work that’s gone into that platform by the OHA. >So if you want to benefit from the Android ecosystem, then make the choice to be compatible. Its easy, free, and we’ll even help you out. But if you don’t want to be compatible, then don’t expect help from OHA members that are all working to supp…

Google is doing business. I has done great so far when it comes to promoting an open platform. You can't expect them to be altruistic.

No, I don't expect altruism but I don't believe that Android (the full Google experience) is an open platform either. It's closer to Windows than Debian and licensees of the Google platform have to sign extensive and restrictive contracts.

Re: Google and Alibaba Continue Warring Over Acer Phone

#42

Post by simonh »

josephlord wrote: post #11
option_greek wrote: post #4

Here is a statement of Andy Rubin on this: https://plus.google.com/112599748506977857728/posts/hRcCi5xg... Apparently, they even have pirated google apps. How Alibaba/Acer claim moral high ground on this is beyond me.

So take action against the pirates. Don't bully your partners away from competing platforms.

By claiming Android compatibility, it's claiming to be the same platform when it isn't. The fact that even people like you, presumably a technically savvy IT insider, can't tell and are easily confused over that point is exactly why Google picked this fight.

My first instinct was to post here jokes about how Android is open, but in a closed way. I'm generally speaking an iOS/Apple symapathist. Just check my posting history. But on reflection and investigation fo what's actually going on, I think Google are trying to do the right thing. They have no leverage over Alibaba directly though, so they're putting pressure on Acer. If Acer wanted to fork Android like B&N or Amazon then fine, but getting the benefits of their OHA commitments means meeting their responsibilities. Supporting a marketing parasite like Alibaba is a step too far.

Re: Google and Alibaba Continue Warring Over Acer Phone

#43

Post by bookwormAT »

allenbrunson wrote: post #2

Here's my own personal perspective. I am very thoroughly in Apple's camp. I have owned several iPhones, an iPad, and more Macs than I can count. This is what I use personally, and what I program for. Although I don't use Android myself, I'm glad it exists. It keeps Apple on their toes. I don't think Apple will make much of a dent in the Android ecosystem, despite the fact that Steve Jobs apparently wanted to. But now…

"The Android ecosystem is generally more open than iOS, but now we see that it has its limits."

No, this is not about Android. Acer joined a "don't fork Android" club, and now Google told them that if they support a fork they have to leave the club.

Android remains completly free and open source.

Re: Google and Alibaba Continue Warring Over Acer Phone

#44

Post by kumarm »

josephlord wrote: post #39
kumarm wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[So take action against the pirates.] You are expecting to after a Chinese Pirates in China and win?

If you have emailed Aliyun and asked them to take it off then absolutely they are doing wrong leaving it on there. I haven't seen any information about what needs to be done to submit apps or if there is any review process (which should at least have caught the obvious Google apps). If they don't remove it fairly promptly then yes maybe Google can take some action. I would expect that with clear cases of copyright in…

So I have to keep searching if a Chinese company is pirating my apps? (How would I even know?). They had the apps for a while and we knew about it only because google called them out.

How about you ask the guy who stole your car (After figuring out who stole it) and if they don't return it to you, then complain to police?

Re: Google and Alibaba Continue Warring Over Acer Phone

#45

Post by recoiledsnake »

orangecat wrote: post #33
taligent wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know it's funny but what you wrote sounds exactly like what Google did with Java.

And Google isn't trying to sue Aliyun out of existence, nor forcibly prevent Acer from shipping Aliyun devices.

> nor forcibly prevent Acer from shipping Aliyun devices

You and me seem to have different definitions for the term 'forcibly', because that's exactly what they seem to be doing here, like Microsoft forced Hitachi not to ship dual boot systems with BeOS under the threat of pulling Windows.

Re: Google and Alibaba Continue Warring Over Acer Phone

#46

Post by recoiledsnake »

azakai wrote: post #24
cooldeal wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The chilling effect on Android forks is the same, while it is funny that the Open Handset Alliance doesn't seem to be really open. All the major phone OEMs are part of it, meaning that Android forks will have hardware and marketing support cut off from them. >If they want to use Android in any way they want, they can leave the OHA. And basically quit the handset market, as described in the GP post. Isn't that like sa…

> And basically quit the handset market There are non-OHA Android products that are successful: The Kindle and Nook, for example. Those happen to be tablets and not phones, but I don't see a fundamental reason for that. > Isn't that like saying if Compaq wanted to ship BeOS or dual boot machine, it could forgo getting the OEM incentives that Dell, HP etc. received from Microsoft? Almost, but not quite. First, Microso…

>Second, in the Microsoft case, Compaq could ship BeOS but it would then have to lose all of Windows. With Android, if you ship Aliyun then you can still use core Android, but you do get that code later, and you also lose the ability to use the proprietary stuff like the app store and maps and so forth

Wrong, Compaq would've lost the OEM incentives and discounts which would've put them at a disadvantage versus HP and Dell, but they still would've been able to ship Windows.

Re: Google and Alibaba Continue Warring Over Acer Phone

#47

Post by cheald »

taligent wrote: post #27
sabret00the wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that Aliyun doesn't simply fork Android and run it's own App Store (as Amazon). It instead tries to rewrite bits, use some bits and create a Frankenstein type monster. Again, that's no real issue. However the real issue is that it's claiming to be Android Compatible, which means it's attempting to market itself off of Android's back. Add that with the fact they've stolen apps and apps written for Aliyu…

You know it's funny but what you wrote sounds exactly like what Google did with Java.

Google doesn't claim that Android is a Java platform (which will run any Java software).

Re: Google and Alibaba Continue Warring Over Acer Phone

#48

Post by donatzsky »

cooldeal wrote: post #7
w1ntermute wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really quite simple. Acer is part of the OHA, so they have to follow OHA rules. It has nothing to do with Android, and everything to do with the OHA. If they want to use Android in any way they want, they can leave the OHA.

The chilling effect on Android forks is the same, while it is funny that the Open Handset Alliance doesn't seem to be really open. All the major phone OEMs are part of it, meaning that Android forks will have hardware and marketing support cut off from them. >If they want to use Android in any way they want, they can leave the OHA. And basically quit the handset market, as described in the GP post. Isn't that like sa…

> Isn't that like saying if Compaq wanted to ship BeOS or dual boot machine, it could forgo getting the OEM incentives that Dell, HP etc. received from Microsoft?

No, since BeOS is not claiming to be compatible with Windows. If they wanted to ship machines with ReactOS, though, that would be a different story.

Google is not complaining because Acer is making phones with a competing OS (they make some WP7 phones as it happens), but because they're making a phone claiming Android compatibility that isn't really compatible.

Re: Google and Alibaba Continue Warring Over Acer Phone

#49

Post by josephlord »

kumarm wrote: post #44
josephlord wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have emailed Aliyun and asked them to take it off then absolutely they are doing wrong leaving it on there. I haven't seen any information about what needs to be done to submit apps or if there is any review process (which should at least have caught the obvious Google apps). If they don't remove it fairly promptly then yes maybe Google can take some action. I would expect that with clear cases of copyright in…

So I have to keep searching if a Chinese company is pirating my apps? (How would I even know?). They had the apps for a while and we knew about it only because google called them out. How about you ask the guy who stole your car (After figuring out who stole it) and if they don't return it to you, then complain to police?

I don't know the Android platform but if your app logging shows massive numbers of devices that aren't matched by downloads reported by the Google store add some additional logging to try to work out why.

If the scale isn't large don't worry about it.

It is copyright infringement, you still have your car (going back to your analogy). Also it may be that Aliyun is the used car dealer that has stolen cars but don't know it, the pirates are the ones who uploaded/submitted it to them.

There have been cases on Apple and Google stores of copyright infringing apps although these get removed when reported.

Re: Google and Alibaba Continue Warring Over Acer Phone

#50

Post by donatzsky »

josephlord wrote: post #41
donniezazen wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google is doing business. I has done great so far when it comes to promoting an open platform. You can't expect them to be altruistic.

No, I don't expect altruism but I don't believe that Android (the full Google experience) is an open platform either. It's closer to Windows than Debian and licensees of the Google platform have to sign extensive and restrictive contracts.

Android, as a platform, is open. You can take the code and do with it what you want. However, if you want to provide the "Google experience" (Play Store, Gmail etc.) then you have to follow Google's rules - rules that are designed to keep everyone in line and avoid fragmentation.

I have no doubt that without those rules we would quickly find ourselves back in the bad old days of Symbian with S60 and UIQ, with a number of competing, barely compatible, versions of Android. Samsung, in particular, would probably split as soon as they got the chance - during the Galaxy S3 launch they seemingly did their best not to mention Google and is trying to build their own parallel ecosystem - only the threat of not getting the Google apps and early source access is keeping them in check.

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