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Leaked Ice document shows worker detained in Hyundai raid had valid visa

theguardian.com

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Re: Leaked Ice document shows worker detained in Hyundai raid had valid visa

#41

Post by mindslight »

bbreier wrote: post #4

It’s unfortunate that many Americans are comfortable with this guilty even if proven innocent approach to justice

Ultimately it comes down to the utter lack of accountability we've had for decades. Our system has been rotting, the elites claim everything is fine as they look at the numbers, especially their own numbers, go up up up. The average person's frustrations have built up to the point that people just want to see other people hurt for a semblance of accountability. See the outpouring of support for Luigi.

So then along comes a new demagogue, covers his face in orange makeup to signal he's not part of that elite ingroup, talks like he's mentally handicapped to make it seem like he lacks the capacity to lie, and claims to care about the plights of the common person. All the things that politicians previously wouldn't talk about, rightly or wrongly. "This one is different, and he really hears us!". But then rather than any sort of reform, he merely directs that anger at other powerless scapegoats - a series of revolving spectacles that leave supporters with no time for it to set in just how much they're being had, or the wide trail of societal damage in his wake.

I keep waiting for even half these people who claim to care about the Constitution and individual liberty to realize how their country is being mortally wounded. How every day they waffle and continue give this societal arsonist a pass, how much worse off our country will be. But being eternally hopeful that people will come around to seeing the truth is one of my personal flaws. So the cynical part of me is just waiting for Trump to start supporting gun control again.

Re: Leaked Ice document shows worker detained in Hyundai raid had valid visa

#42

Post by messe »

farceSpherule wrote: post #33
messe wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's biased to think it's bad to arrest innocent people?

You people realize that this was a month's long investigation and that the raid was approved by a federal judge? ICE did not simply show up and start arresting people.

And despite all that prep they still arrested innocent people.

Re: Leaked Ice document shows worker detained in Hyundai raid had valid visa

#43

Post by nerdjon »

farceSpherule wrote: post #33
messe wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's biased to think it's bad to arrest innocent people?

You people realize that this was a month's long investigation and that the raid was approved by a federal judge? ICE did not simply show up and start arresting people.

So you be perfectly fine being arrested for doing nothing wrong and being somewhere completely legally just because there was a "month's long investigation" (whatever that means in this administration...).

Re: Leaked Ice document shows worker detained in Hyundai raid had valid visa

#44

Post by FuriouslyAdrift »

B1/B2 visas are routinely violated by companies. These are not immigrant visas but temporary visitor visas for the purposes of attending meetings, etc.

I think the shock from Hyundai is that violating these visas have been standard practice for so long that enforcement was not expected.

Re: Leaked Ice document shows worker detained in Hyundai raid had valid visa

#45

Post by kccoder »

farceSpherule wrote: post #33
messe wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's biased to think it's bad to arrest innocent people?

You people realize that this was a month's long investigation and that the raid was approved by a federal judge? ICE did not simply show up and start arresting people.

May you one day be on the receiving end of the system of justice you claim to be trustworthy, prudent, and impartial.

Re: Leaked Ice document shows worker detained in Hyundai raid had valid visa

#46

Post by mindslight »

jimbo808 wrote: post #31
elygre wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I was rounded up in an ICE raid, I would enthusiastically depart the country, even if I was fully compliant with every rule. That’s to say that a voluntary departure doesn’t mean no harm was caused.

But if harm was caused, The Guardian would probably be more explicit about it. They wouldn't beat around the bush in how they word it.

Baseless detainment and coercion, kicking a law-abiding America-contributing worker out of the country, interrupting the building of a new domestic factory, and making an allied country wary of working with us are the harms. You're just ignoring them, because you've been propagandized to think the victims deserved it.

Re: Leaked Ice document shows worker detained in Hyundai raid had valid visa

#47

Post by quamserena »

elygre wrote: post #27
quamserena wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a bit more complicated than that. They all had valid (at the time) visas, but some may have been in violation of the requirements. South Korean companies couldn't get H1-B visas so they instead used VWP or B1/B2 visas meant for tourism and short-term business (conferences, negotiation, etc.). These visas don't allow certain kinds of work, so it depends what they were actually doing at the plant. From the article…

The article says that the ICE agent thinks the worker was compliant with visa terms: «From statements made and queries in law enforcement databases, [redacted] has not violated his visa; however, the Atlanta Field Office Director has mandated [redacted] be presented as a Voluntary Departure. [Redacted] has accepted voluntary departure despite not violating his B1/B2 visa requirements.»

I read that statement as saying that no violations are currently on the record, but not precluding that the requirements might currently be being violated.

Re: Leaked Ice document shows worker detained in Hyundai raid had valid visa

#48

Post by jimbo808 »

mindslight wrote: post #46
jimbo808 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if harm was caused, The Guardian would probably be more explicit about it. They wouldn't beat around the bush in how they word it.

Baseless detainment and coercion, kicking a law-abiding America-contributing worker out of the country, interrupting the building of a new domestic factory, and making an allied country wary of working with us are the harms . You're just ignoring them, because you've been propagandized to think the victims deserved it.

That is a very different issue than what the article implies. The implication of the article was that something very illegal happened. What you're implying is not necessarily illegal, but I agree it is harmful.

Re: Leaked Ice document shows worker detained in Hyundai raid had valid visa

#49

Post by normalaccess »

carefulfungi wrote: post #38
normalaccess wrote: post #32

Although unfortunate this falls within the margin of error for such events. I hope everything gets resolved but a dragnet will cause a few false positives. Just the same as if the cops bust a party where there is under age drinking, one or two people might be old enough but you can't tell until you process everyone. And this wouldn't be the chaos it is if the border wasn't a free for all in the first place.

I'm just glad they survived the long swim from South Korea to the US-Mexico border.

Here is the breakdown for illegal immigration by country of origin:

  By region:
  Mexico + Central America collectively made up 68% (~9.3 million)
  South America – ~12% (~1.7 million)
  Asia – ~6% (~851,000)
  Europe, Canada, Oceania – ~7% (~896,000)
  Caribbean – ~4% (~575,000)
  Africa – ~3% (~415,000)

  Source: migrationpolicy.org

Re: Leaked Ice document shows worker detained in Hyundai raid had valid visa

#50

Post by farceSpherule »

messe wrote: post #42
farceSpherule wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You people realize that this was a month's long investigation and that the raid was approved by a federal judge? ICE did not simply show up and start arresting people.

And despite all that prep they still arrested innocent people.

[flagged]
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