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Tokyo has an unmanned, honor-system electronics and appliance shop

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Re: Tokyo has an unmanned, honor-system electronics and appliance shop

#41

Post by rjh29 »

yorwba wrote: post #34

What the article doesn't mention but the store's website https://tot-go12.com/ does is that you need to pass through facial recognition to enter the store and there are multiple cameras tracking whether you try to leave without paying. (Maybe like Amazon Checkout where there's humans continuously monitoring the video feed.) "High trust society" or not, you need some minimum level of security to avoid becoming a honey…

There are plenty of unmanned frozen food shops (gyoza etc.) with one CCTV. On the rare occasion that someone steals food, it is taken seriously and investigated.

People have been arrested here for grabbing a medium combini coffee cup and using it to serve a large coffee.

Re: Tokyo has an unmanned, honor-system electronics and appliance shop

#42

Post by rjh29 »

hilbert42 wrote: post #21

That's wonderful, but it's not a big surprise for me. When in Tokyo I encountered vending machines on a public street (the Ginza) that dispensed bottles of whiskey—Suntory if I recall—that operated 24 hours a day. If you wanted a drink at 3AM you could get it. Where I am that vending machine would be vandalized overnight and the owner of such an appliance shop would be broke and out of business the next day. Shame re…

Those vending machines are supposed to check ID but I've never seen one do (I think cigarette machines do). They just turn off at night and apparently that's enough to stop children from using them.

Re: Tokyo has an unmanned, honor-system electronics and appliance shop

#43

Post by [deleted] »

hilbert42 wrote: post #21

That's wonderful, but it's not a big surprise for me. When in Tokyo I encountered vending machines on a public street (the Ginza) that dispensed bottles of whiskey—Suntory if I recall—that operated 24 hours a day. If you wanted a drink at 3AM you could get it. Where I am that vending machine would be vandalized overnight and the owner of such an appliance shop would be broke and out of business the next day. Shame re…

[deleted]

Re: Tokyo has an unmanned, honor-system electronics and appliance shop

#44

Post by antonvs »

bombcar wrote: post #6
kelipso wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if this is actual high trust or that there are security cameras everywhere.

If you've been to the rural USA you'd know it's just high-trust (and the middle of nowhere). They're pretty common for low-value things like corn and farm produce; but I've seen syrup and honey, too. There might be a camera but since there's usually no power, it'd have to be some sort of trail/game/deer cam. What would you do with the result besides some vigilante frontier justice? No cop anywhere but daytime childre…

> No cop anywhere but daytime children's TV is going to investigate the Case of the Stolen Syrup.

Or Japan apparently, according to some of the comments in this thread.

Re: Tokyo has an unmanned, honor-system electronics and appliance shop

#45

Post by madaxe_again »

bapak wrote: post #37
yorwba wrote: post #34

What the article doesn't mention but the store's website https://tot-go12.com/ does is that you need to pass through facial recognition to enter the store and there are multiple cameras tracking whether you try to leave without paying. (Maybe like Amazon Checkout where there's humans continuously monitoring the video feed.) "High trust society" or not, you need some minimum level of security to avoid becoming a honey…

> the police actually showing up and doing something about it when they report a theft. That and this whole concept can only happen in places with low criminality. In Thailand I occasionally find small shops that have a CCTV and that's it (but the total value of goods on display likely does not exceed $100)

Or just the insurers paying up because the police provided a crime number.

This is how it works in the U.K. - everyone has cctv, not because it prevents theft or allows the police to investigate, but rather because it allows you insurance coverage for any losses.

Re: Tokyo has an unmanned, honor-system electronics and appliance shop

#46

Post by socalgal2 »

bapak wrote: post #37
yorwba wrote: post #34

What the article doesn't mention but the store's website https://tot-go12.com/ does is that you need to pass through facial recognition to enter the store and there are multiple cameras tracking whether you try to leave without paying. (Maybe like Amazon Checkout where there's humans continuously monitoring the video feed.) "High trust society" or not, you need some minimum level of security to avoid becoming a honey…

> the police actually showing up and doing something about it when they report a theft. That and this whole concept can only happen in places with low criminality. In Thailand I occasionally find small shops that have a CCTV and that's it (but the total value of goods on display likely does not exceed $100)

I wonder what does it take to get a society to have low criminality. IIUC Japan wasn't always this way. Could other societies become high trust? Singapore is. It wasn't always

Re: Tokyo has an unmanned, honor-system electronics and appliance shop

#47

Post by antonvs »

deadbabe wrote: post #35
kcyb wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Switzerland is a diverse society with lots of immigration and it is also a high-trust society

Switzerland is so small, basically a city.

Switzerland's population would make it one of the biggest cities in the world, more than double the population of Los Angeles, and more than New York City. Neither of which could be counted as high trust.

Re: Tokyo has an unmanned, honor-system electronics and appliance shop

#48

Post by adrian_b »

hilbert42 wrote: post #21

That's wonderful, but it's not a big surprise for me. When in Tokyo I encountered vending machines on a public street (the Ginza) that dispensed bottles of whiskey—Suntory if I recall—that operated 24 hours a day. If you wanted a drink at 3AM you could get it. Where I am that vending machine would be vandalized overnight and the owner of such an appliance shop would be broke and out of business the next day. Shame re…

While visiting Japan last year, I have witnessed a scene when one of my companions forgot his wallet, which also contained an expensive smartphone, in a train, when we have changed quickly the trains, and someone from the other train ran really, really fast, to catch us in the other train and give the forgotten wallet to its owner.

Than he ran equally fast to his train, which was ready to leave. Had he not run so fast while returning the wallet to its owner, he would have lost his train. Therefore, doing a good deed had required quite an effort for that Japanese, but this had not dissuaded him.

Re: Tokyo has an unmanned, honor-system electronics and appliance shop

#49

Post by mrweasel »

kcyb wrote: post #22
deadbabe wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

High trust environments tend to crumble in society when you allow too much immigration. Japan’s xenophobia has worked well in this regard.

Switzerland is a diverse society with lots of immigration and it is also a high-trust society

That probably has more to do with who immigrates to Switzerland. I don't now the numbers, but people who immigrate to Switzerland is probably fairly well educated and generally pretty well of.

Denmark is still a fairly high-trust society, not to the level of Switzerland or Japan. We're seeing certain items in supermarkets being locked away or chipped to prevent theft. Now that's not just because of immigrants, Danes steal from the supermarket as well, because prices on many items are increasing rapidly.

Re: Tokyo has an unmanned, honor-system electronics and appliance shop

#50

Post by socalgal2 »

bombcar wrote: post #3
avidiax wrote: post #2

Japan is obviously a "high trust" society, so I feel like this experiment will work. I wish we had a way to make this sort of system work in a low trust society.

We do have a way - "high trust" enclaves inside the low trust society. The modern examples in the USA are things like colleges, community centers, etc. You gatekeeper the area and then everything inside is high-trust and you can get away with things like this. You can also find it in rural areas and some very expensive islands, too.

In what way are USA colleges high trust. USA colleges have very high petty theft.
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