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“This telegram must be closely paraphrased before being communicated to anyone”

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Re: “This telegram must be closely paraphrased before being communicated to anyone”

#41
post #28
post #2

The term to google for more information about this would be Known plaintext attack.

Oh that makes sense. I assumed wrong that it was going to be about prisoners sending secret messages in their letters home, and the guards wanting to scramble those out.

I clicked thinking it was about avoiding watermarks when exfiltrating data. I enjoyed the cryptography lesson I got instead.

Re: “This telegram must be closely paraphrased before being communicated to anyone”

#42
post #5

Hasn’t known invariants been used to break modern encryption in TLs, etc? Like a SSH packet will always contain some known info, etc.

I'm not sure why drum55's answer is buried but they're correct that the Nonce concept in modern crypto addresses this issue.

It's not only the nonce. The nonce helps to ensure that the message re-encrypted doesn't have the same ciphertext, but the known plaintext can still be used to forge messages. What stops message forgery is the message tag that TLS has (using the AEADs like AES-GCM or ChaCha20Poly1305).

That said, the nonce is still very important to avoid most key recovery attacks

Re: “This telegram must be closely paraphrased before being communicated to anyone”

#43

Tangentially related — sending everyone in a company a slightly different document can help catch the person leaking confidential documents to the press.

Tyrion did that thing in GoT (fictional btw) - https://www.reddit.com/r/gameofthrones/comments/45256e/s2e3_...

Fictional, but based on real approach.

Re: “This telegram must be closely paraphrased before being communicated to anyone”

#44
post #24

ETA: Note that I appear to have been mistaken about the connection to ENIAC. Note that it is equally dangerous to send paraphrased messages using the same key (which is called sending messages "in depth"). This was used to crack the Lorenz ("Tunny") cipher. Interestingly Bletchley Park hadn't gotten their hands on a Lorenz machine, they cracked it based on speculation. And it lead to the development of the first tube…

An interesting quirk in Ethereum is that a contract address is determined by deployer address + nonce. So, you can send ETH to a contract that does not exist, then later deploy a contract there and recover it.

Re: “This telegram must be closely paraphrased before being communicated to anyone”

#45
post #6

This is a familiar concept from reading about WW2 spy stuff (Between Silk and Cyanide, for example, which I highly recommend). But what REALLY intrigues me is the typeface of the letter with its upper-case 'E' used in place of 'e'. What's up with that?

Legibility would be my guess. Can't confuse ᴇ for c.

If we're guessing I have ideas:

1) it's just the typeface,

2) the teletype machine has unique letter so the machine it was received in is known (and hence which staff received it), reducing the ability to forge messages. Different machines could have had special letters, or all machines handling secrets had that particular "e"??

3) the machine broke and the repair shop only had a small-caps "E" handy.

Re: “This telegram must be closely paraphrased before being communicated to anyone”

#46
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> the juice wasn’t worth the squeeze I recall that Ovaltine goes better with decoded messages.

i recall squeezing lemons to write invisible messages...

https://www.suzannearnold.com/blog/not-worth-the-candle

Re: “This telegram must be closely paraphrased before being communicated to anyone”

#47
post #24

ETA: Note that I appear to have been mistaken about the connection to ENIAC. Note that it is equally dangerous to send paraphrased messages using the same key (which is called sending messages "in depth"). This was used to crack the Lorenz ("Tunny") cipher. Interestingly Bletchley Park hadn't gotten their hands on a Lorenz machine, they cracked it based on speculation. And it lead to the development of the first tube…

If you model the distribution of messages as a tree from sender to recipients, the key's reuse across messages could be measured as "depth" in a structural sense.

Re: “This telegram must be closely paraphrased before being communicated to anyone”

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Legibility would be my guess. Can't confuse ᴇ for c.

If we're guessing I have ideas: 1) it's just the typeface, 2) the teletype machine has unique letter so the machine it was received in is known (and hence which staff received it), reducing the ability to forge messages. Different machines could have had special letters, or all machines handling secrets had that particular "e"?? 3) the machine broke and the repair shop only had a small-caps "E" handy.

I assume this is a typed up decrypt - not raw teletype output. Teletype would be all caps; this has been typed, capitalized, and laid out by a typist.

Re: “This telegram must be closely paraphrased before being communicated to anyone”

#49

Interesting. I liked the explanations in the accepted answer. This rule especially,“Never repeat in the clear the identical text of a message once sent in cryptographic form, or repeat in cryptographic form the text of a message once sent in the clear.” As a child I learned about codes from a library book. Fascinated with one-time pads, I convinced a friend to try a correspondence. We exchanged a few messages, and th…

>> the juice wasn’t worth the squeeze I recall that Ovaltine goes better with decoded messages.

"... two minutes into that Ovaltine thing and I just couldn't take it anymore."

Re: “This telegram must be closely paraphrased before being communicated to anyone”

#50
post #6

This is a familiar concept from reading about WW2 spy stuff (Between Silk and Cyanide, for example, which I highly recommend). But what REALLY intrigues me is the typeface of the letter with its upper-case 'E' used in place of 'e'. What's up with that?

Might be unrelated in this example, but when a message is written in a lazy ROT13-like cypher, the letter e becomes a notorious rat that allows anyone to break the entire thing in very little time. Randomizing/obfuscating the letter case might buy you a little time, though I think it's something else entirely here.

Zvtug oR haeRyngRq va guvf RknzcyR, ohg juRa n zRffntR vf jevggRa va n ynml EBG13-yvxR plcuRe, guR yRggRe R oRpbzRf n abgbevbhf eng gung nyybjf nalbaR gb oeRnx guR RagveR guvat va iRel yvggyR gvzR.

Enaqbzvmvat/boshfpngvat guR yRggRe pnfR zvtug ohl lbh n yvggyR gvzR, gubhtu V guvax vg'f fbzRguvat RyfR RagveRyl uReR.

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