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The cost of transparency: Living with schizoaffective disorder in tech

kennethreitz.org

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Re: The cost of transparency: Living with schizoaffective disorder in tech

#41

Post by jasonlotito »

morleytj wrote: post #30

This is very unfortunate and I'm sorry to hear that the author has been excluded and is suffering to this extent. On another note though: "This isn't paranoia—it's pattern recognition honed by lived experience." I can't stop seeing the LLM verbiage everywhere I look. I feel like once you recognize the repeated syntax that got RLHF'd into all of these models you never stop seeing it. Maybe everyone is learning those p…

"This is very unfortunate and I'm sorry to hear that the author has been excluded and is suffering to this extent."

I can't stop seeing this LLM verbiage everywhere I look. I feel like once you recognize the repeated syntax that got RLHF'd into all of these models you never stop seeing it. Maybe everyone is learning those patterns from reading AI-generated language now too.

Re: The cost of transparency: Living with schizoaffective disorder in tech

#42

Post by y-curious »

481Jqgat wrote: post #18
sfn42 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This blog I found seems to support your view https://vorpus.org/blog/why-im-not-collaborating-with-kennet...

Written by Nathaniel Smith, who also got Oliphant out of the NumPy Steering Council? And that linked post was approved by the CoC compliant Python Steering Council, a later version of which canceled and defamed Tim Peters? Maybe Smith is right on the facts here, but the methods are despicable.

The depth of the politics of the python community is very funny to someone that knows nothing about the community. You are expecting a lot of background knowledge about the opinions of OSS maintainers.

It's kind of like having very strong opinions about the council of yoyo judges and their dramas.

Re: The cost of transparency: Living with schizoaffective disorder in tech

#43

Post by energy123 »

zemvpferreira wrote: post #4

"Schizoaffective disorder is a mental health condition that is marked by a mix of schizophrenia symptoms, such as hallucinations and delusions, and mood disorder symptoms, such as depression, mania and a milder form of mania called hypomania. Hallucinations involve seeing things or hearing voices that others don't observe. Delusions involve believing things that are not real or not true." I'm not sure this is an empl…

You've got to put them behind a remote, narrowly-scoped, async interface. Basically hire them as a remote consultant, with 1 point of contact, and send them non-urgent tasks that they can complete whenever. It can work like this, I've seen it. Eventually they blow up, but the interface prevents any negative side-effects, and in the interim it was a win-win arrangement.

Re: The cost of transparency: Living with schizoaffective disorder in tech

#44

Post by nemomarx »

bradstewart wrote: post #35
morleytj wrote: post #30

This is very unfortunate and I'm sorry to hear that the author has been excluded and is suffering to this extent. On another note though: "This isn't paranoia—it's pattern recognition honed by lived experience." I can't stop seeing the LLM verbiage everywhere I look. I feel like once you recognize the repeated syntax that got RLHF'd into all of these models you never stop seeing it. Maybe everyone is learning those p…

What specifically is the LLM verbiage you're seeing here? That reads like a normal sentence to me.

em dash in the middle of a "it's not just x, it's y" phrasing. I see it in several other spots in the essay and it's kind of a "code smell"

Of course it's also a normal, polished sentence with good grammar, but it seems a little unrealistic. It's too polished basically.

Re: The cost of transparency: Living with schizoaffective disorder in tech

#45

Post by morleytj »

bradstewart wrote: post #35
morleytj wrote: post #30

This is very unfortunate and I'm sorry to hear that the author has been excluded and is suffering to this extent. On another note though: "This isn't paranoia—it's pattern recognition honed by lived experience." I can't stop seeing the LLM verbiage everywhere I look. I feel like once you recognize the repeated syntax that got RLHF'd into all of these models you never stop seeing it. Maybe everyone is learning those p…

What specifically is the LLM verbiage you're seeing here? That reads like a normal sentence to me.

It's very common to see the particular syntactic structure of restating a point in the following general manner from Claude/ChatGPT in my experience and that of others:

"It's not X -- it's Y." or "This isn't just X -- It's actually Y."

Usually with an emdash there as well for the separation. As I said it's very plausibly becoming more common among people not using LLM-assisted writing too, just from seeing the stylistic approach used more often and having it spread naturally, but I do have been seeing it spread with dramatic speed over the last couple years. I even catch myself using other phrasing more often from reading it more. I think it's just part of how language spreads, honestly.

Re: The cost of transparency: Living with schizoaffective disorder in tech

#46

Post by jokoon »

runjake wrote: post #10

The Python community didn’t exclude Kenneth because of his condition, at least directly. They excluded him because of his actions and history of shady, manipulative behaviors. And while workplaces should be accommodating, there’s a point where it gets to be too much. I worked at a place with a person with similar behaviors and it destroyed that company because they refused to acknowledge reality: this was a business,…

This doesn't surprise me.

It's central to understand that mental health can alter perception and judgment, even common mental illnesses like depression and anxiety.

I have chronic depression, and even after treating it for 15 years, I still realizes after the fact, despite being attentive to how I behave, that I just think differently when I am depressed.

It's very common for mentally ill people to think they are being persecuted. We also should still inform people more about mental illness, so both are true.

Illnesses that involves psychosis are not a joke and more severe than your average depression, and sadly I would be careful and not 100% trustworthy of somebody who is having such illness.

Re: The cost of transparency: Living with schizoaffective disorder in tech

#47

Post by dpoloncsak »

rlmcdonald wrote: post #20

All the comments here about how it's okay that he got excluded because he did the bad things fall right in line with what he's describing. Mental health awareness is easy when you just throw away all the people who make you uncomfortable! I thought it was a pretty good read and I'm not discounting it because it was written by someone struggling with mental illness.

Mate, theres another blog post about how the guy stole almost $30k of fundraised money. That's not mental illness, that's behavior that we should not be welcoming in any community.

Re: The cost of transparency: Living with schizoaffective disorder in tech

#48

Post by nake89 »

rlmcdonald wrote: post #20

All the comments here about how it's okay that he got excluded because he did the bad things fall right in line with what he's describing. Mental health awareness is easy when you just throw away all the people who make you uncomfortable! I thought it was a pretty good read and I'm not discounting it because it was written by someone struggling with mental illness.

Interesting interpretation of the comments.

Re: The cost of transparency: Living with schizoaffective disorder in tech

#49

Post by tikhonj »

bradstewart wrote: post #35
morleytj wrote: post #30

This is very unfortunate and I'm sorry to hear that the author has been excluded and is suffering to this extent. On another note though: "This isn't paranoia—it's pattern recognition honed by lived experience." I can't stop seeing the LLM verbiage everywhere I look. I feel like once you recognize the repeated syntax that got RLHF'd into all of these models you never stop seeing it. Maybe everyone is learning those p…

What specifically is the LLM verbiage you're seeing here? That reads like a normal sentence to me.

Slight variations on "This isn't X—it's Y." have been popping up all over the place, almost definitely because it's a pattern that ChatGPT has been tuned to (over-) use.

Re: The cost of transparency: Living with schizoaffective disorder in tech

#50

Post by nemomarx »

jasonlotito wrote: post #41
morleytj wrote: post #30

This is very unfortunate and I'm sorry to hear that the author has been excluded and is suffering to this extent. On another note though: "This isn't paranoia—it's pattern recognition honed by lived experience." I can't stop seeing the LLM verbiage everywhere I look. I feel like once you recognize the repeated syntax that got RLHF'd into all of these models you never stop seeing it. Maybe everyone is learning those p…

"This is very unfortunate and I'm sorry to hear that the author has been excluded and is suffering to this extent." I can't stop seeing this LLM verbiage everywhere I look. I feel like once you recognize the repeated syntax that got RLHF'd into all of these models you never stop seeing it. Maybe everyone is learning those patterns from reading AI-generated language now too.

I think an llm would have put a comma in the middle of that?

I wonder why no one's tuned their model to make minor errors that way or leave a few things uncapitalized to fake a human touch

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