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Linux on the (consumer) Desktop

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Re: Linux on the (consumer) Desktop

#41

Post by radley »

j_col wrote: post #38
radley wrote: post #36

I still think it's going to be Android PC that's the next big (Linux) desktop OS. It has openness and it has the big support of Google. Android is not suddenly going to be a desktop thing. It'll happen over time as Android devices become more and more important than desktops. An Android PC will serve to extend that Eco-system on the same level as iOS & OSX (but better since it's still fun).

I'm not sure I'm comfortable with Google (a large corporation driven by advertising profits) owning the desktop too. > It has openness and it has the big support of Google. Google did not open up Android 3.0 when it did not suit them to do so (commercially). I've never heard of Redhat or Canonical doing something similar with one of their Linux releases.

If you saw 3.0 you know why - it was a giant fake hack which was not ready for phones. Opening it up would have destroyed confidence in the platform.

I'm not entirely comfortable with Google either, but I'm far less comfortable with Apple & M$.

Re: Linux on the (consumer) Desktop

#42

Post by twelvechairs »

Call me silly, but the series of blogposts that this is a continuation of seem to have widely different definitions of "Desktop". One minute it seems to be gnome and other "Desktop Systems", another minute linux in general. Be good to have a little more clarity on just what they all seem so keen on achieving.

Persoinally, I'm not so sure Linux needs to aim to be used by everyone under the sun... People have different needs and pluralism in operating systems (yes, including MS) can be a good thing....

Re: Linux on the (consumer) Desktop

#43

Post by shmerl »

josteink wrote: post #39
shmerl wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arguably, the majority of PC users don't care about heavy gaming. While gamers are an important factor, they aren't the blocker for any OEM to provide an option of Linux preinstalled. There are lot's of people who use their computers merely for browsing, reading e-mails and some minimal document editing and multimedia like audio/video. Many don't even use desktop office applications, using some web services for that.…

> And Libre Office or Calligra are decent options as well. I use Linux machines for what they do well, and pretty much all my machines sans the "main" Laptop are Linux-driven. That said: This statement cannot be refuted enough. Libre Office and its forks are merely bad imitations of previous versions of MS Office while offering few to no benefits once you exclude cost. They are not "decent" alternatives. They are fre…

How many users use 100% of functionality of MS Office? And what part of functionality most users use? We were not talking about drop in replacements, were were talking about satisfying enough needs of a common user. There always can be cases of some functionality lacking. But for common needs - Libre Office is way more than enough already. Google's options are way too limited comparing to desktop applications, but they work well for some use cases. I find Libre Office more than satisfactory for above average complexity document editing. And while it can lack some obscure functions of MS office, I just probably never needed them in the first place.

Re: Linux on the (consumer) Desktop

#44

Post by blvr »

radley wrote: post #36

I still think it's going to be Android PC that's the next big (Linux) desktop OS. It has openness and it has the big support of Google. Android is not suddenly going to be a desktop thing. It'll happen over time as Android devices become more and more important than desktops. An Android PC will serve to extend that Eco-system on the same level as iOS & OSX (but better since it's still fun).

As much as I love all these new touch UIs, I can't see myself using them on a desktop PC. The WIMP paradigm has way too many advantages on desktop to just be dropped.

Although if someone took Android and modified the application framework, windowing system, etc. to be a traditional WIMP desktop OS, I think that would definitely interest me.

Re: Linux on the (consumer) Desktop

#45

Post by Steko »

shmerl wrote: post #27
Steko wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"what does Linux not provide, that the common user needs" Office, Outlook, most AAA games, itunes. Don't tell me that because you can run them today on your machine (well maybe) that that somehow translates to what common users have experienced over the last decade.

Arguably, the majority of PC users don't care about heavy gaming. While gamers are an important factor, they aren't the blocker for any OEM to provide an option of Linux preinstalled. There are lot's of people who use their computers merely for browsing, reading e-mails and some minimal document editing and multimedia like audio/video. Many don't even use desktop office applications, using some web services for that.…

Options are great but frankly haven't always been there and are not options for everyone. OpenOffice/LO are great options and I have long used them myself but if my 1000 employee business is currently built around MS Office then I need to buy new computers with Office, end of story. If those employees want full compatibility with their work files and email at home they needed to buy windows.

For a very long time for most things casual users did Windows was a better fit then linux. Want to play games? Windows by a mile. Burn DVDs? Windows. Download music legally? Windows. Download music illegally? Windows. Word Processing? Windows. Spreadsheets? Windows. Use that new camera/scanner/printer/ipod? Windows by a mile. Read your office email? Windows. DTP? Windows. Visit flash websites? Windows.

Re: Linux on the (consumer) Desktop

#46

Post by josteink »

shmerl wrote: post #43
josteink wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And Libre Office or Calligra are decent options as well. I use Linux machines for what they do well, and pretty much all my machines sans the "main" Laptop are Linux-driven. That said: This statement cannot be refuted enough. Libre Office and its forks are merely bad imitations of previous versions of MS Office while offering few to no benefits once you exclude cost. They are not "decent" alternatives. They are fre…

How many users use 100% of functionality of MS Office? And what part of functionality most users use? We were not talking about drop in replacements, were were talking about satisfying enough needs of a common user. There always can be cases of some functionality lacking. But for common needs - Libre Office is way more than enough already. Google's options are way too limited comparing to desktop applications, but th…

You'll have to read my comment as me talking, as a reasonably capable user, which normally merely access around 5% of what I know MS Office can do.

Just basic things like creating sections, chapters, tables, footers, headers and making it all look good and consistent, quickly and easily.

MS Office, since the move to the ribbon-system have really excelled at exposing the functionality required to do this. It's always there in your face, just one click away, when you need it and then it gets out of your way. It's fantastic.

Libre Office and its forks are still stuck in the last generation of UIs where you have a million toolbars, all just mediocrely capable and insufficient to your full needs, none adapted to your current context and always there taking up space and cluttering the UI wheter you need them or not.

There's just no comparison between the user experiences here. MS Office is in a league of its own.

Re: Linux on the (consumer) Desktop

#47

Post by shmerl »

Steko wrote: post #45
shmerl wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arguably, the majority of PC users don't care about heavy gaming. While gamers are an important factor, they aren't the blocker for any OEM to provide an option of Linux preinstalled. There are lot's of people who use their computers merely for browsing, reading e-mails and some minimal document editing and multimedia like audio/video. Many don't even use desktop office applications, using some web services for that.…

Options are great but frankly haven't always been there and are not options for everyone. OpenOffice/LO are great options and I have long used them myself but if my 1000 employee business is currently built around MS Office then I need to buy new computers with Office, end of story. If those employees want full compatibility with their work files and email at home they needed to buy windows. For a very long time for…

Honestly, besides gaming (which becomes better with maturing Wine) I don't see how Linux lacks in any functions you mentioned i.e. DVD burning, legal music downloads (one can use Banshee with Amazon for example) and etc. and etc. The only issue can be that of unfamiliarity, but it's not a functional issue. Any decent digital player can work with Linux (and I don't consider iPod to be decent one ;).

Re: Linux on the (consumer) Desktop

#48

Post by shmerl »

josteink wrote: post #46
shmerl wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many users use 100% of functionality of MS Office? And what part of functionality most users use? We were not talking about drop in replacements, were were talking about satisfying enough needs of a common user. There always can be cases of some functionality lacking. But for common needs - Libre Office is way more than enough already. Google's options are way too limited comparing to desktop applications, but th…

You'll have to read my comment as me talking, as a reasonably capable user, which normally merely access around 5% of what I know MS Office can do. Just basic things like creating sections, chapters, tables, footers, headers and making it all look good and consistent, quickly and easily. MS Office, since the move to the ribbon-system have really excelled at exposing the functionality required to do this. It's always…

UI unfamiliarity is not equal to the lack of functionality in the program itself. Comfortable feeling about UI is also a subjective matter to a degree, so what works well for some is irritating for others.

Re: Linux on the (consumer) Desktop

#49

Post by josteink »

shmerl wrote: post #48
josteink wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll have to read my comment as me talking, as a reasonably capable user, which normally merely access around 5% of what I know MS Office can do. Just basic things like creating sections, chapters, tables, footers, headers and making it all look good and consistent, quickly and easily. MS Office, since the move to the ribbon-system have really excelled at exposing the functionality required to do this. It's always…

UI unfamiliarity is not equal to the lack of functionality in the program itself. Comfortable feeling about UI is also a subjective matter to a degree, so what works well for some is irritating for others.

Sure. That is a factor.

But the reason Microsoft moved from the safe (familiar) UI to the new one was because they realized the old UI-model didn't scale well with expanded functionality.

They decided to try to improve the user experience by leaving behind what clearly did not work.

For a company which owes most of its legacy to users preferring familiarity, that's very much not a small thing. But they decided it had to be done.

More than five years later, Libre Office still haven't done anything at all to fundamentally improve UX. To me that sounds like somebody simply not caring.

Re: Linux on the (consumer) Desktop

#50

Post by drblast »

It's fascinating to watch people totally underestimate the lock Microsoft has on the corporate computing environment. This article suggests that it would be easier to break into the business/enterprise desktop than it would be to sell to consumers.

It's probably just about the opposite. Linux is many years away from the level of plug-it-in-and-forget-it integration that Windows has. Linux is light years away from having anything resembling Active Directory in quality. And like it or not, the corporate world lives and dies by Office.

I'd say if you want to make progress, the consumer space is the only possible bet, and it won't be on desktop computers but on tablets and embedded devices which, for the most part, will replace people's keyboard and monitor machines at home.

But not in the office.

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