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Class-action suit claims Otter AI records private work conversations

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Re: Class-action suit claims Otter AI records private work conversations

#41

Post by matthewdgreen »

cj wrote: post #31
matthewdgreen wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, the standard product experience here is that everyone gets a visual or audio warning that the meeting is being recorded.

Are you sure? I’ve used Otter to record convos without it joining the meeting. Notion’s AI meeting recording also works without any participants being alerted. Same with Limitless.ai (check out the limitless pendant for the most extreme example of no consent recording) Most of these AI meeting recording services make it easy to silently/secretly record. No consent seems to be the default UX.

No, I meant the standard product experience for meeting recording tools.

Re: Class-action suit claims Otter AI records private work conversations

#42

Post by cj »

matthewdgreen wrote: post #41
cj wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure? I’ve used Otter to record convos without it joining the meeting. Notion’s AI meeting recording also works without any participants being alerted. Same with Limitless.ai (check out the limitless pendant for the most extreme example of no consent recording) Most of these AI meeting recording services make it easy to silently/secretly record. No consent seems to be the default UX.

No, I meant the standard product experience for meeting recording tools.

Right. The standard UX does not include anything that would indicate to other attendees that the meeting is being recorded.

Re: Class-action suit claims Otter AI records private work conversations

#43

Post by brendang_sd »

protonbob wrote: post #29
brendang_sd wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s the problem though, getting the email with a copy of the recording may be the unwitting participants first indication that the call was recorded without their knowledge or consent. Otters defense is that it’s up to their users to inform other participants and get their consent where necessary, the claim of the lawsuit is that Otter is deliberately making a product which does not make it obvious that the call i…

If it is just a tool then a tape recorder company should be liable as well. It doesn't do any sort of notice or make it obvious that someone is being recorded.

If the tape recorder were to automatically start recording whenever a meeting started and silently add itself to physical rooms unexpectedly... you might have a point.

The tape recorder manufacturer also doesn’t claim the right to permanently own anything it’s users record, with or without permission.

Re: Class-action suit claims Otter AI records private work conversations

#44

Post by Confiks »

tiahura wrote: post #28
Confiks wrote: post #27

A month ago a potential customer automatically included their Otter.ai meeting agent into a Teams call. The customer never turned up (he canceled the meeting somewhat later), but me and a colleague chatted a bit in the meeting. Then the Otter.ai meeting agent posted a link in the chat, from which it was clear that everything had been recorded, up to a complete video of the meeting with full facial imagery. As I'm a E…

They're not a European company.

Their own privacy policy acknowledges their obligations under the GDPR.

Re: Class-action suit claims Otter AI records private work conversations

#45

Post by JumpCrisscross »

buran77 wrote: post #39
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> used to trust that my friends enough to not share our conversations. Now the default assumption is that text & media on even private messaging will be harvested I would seriously reëvaluate my trust level in a friend or colleague who installs a non-ADA screen reader on their phone. At least to the level of sharing anything sensitive.

What about when devices come with such a "feature" baked in? Android has Magic Cue, Windows has Recall. How long until they're opt-out, or "accidentally" enabled with an update, or just on at all times? And "sensitive" can be wherever details I want to share with that friend. It can be as benign as giving them an address or phone number, or maybe a medical diagnosis, or a crypto wallet number. Is your position that a…

> Is your position that anyone who's not tech savvy enough to constantly fight the onslaught of shady business practices and dark patterns that most tech companies throw at them is not worthy of their friends' trust?

Trust is a function of character and competence. Not understanding how your technology may be compromising you is, within the scope of keeping secrets, a fracture of competence.

I can’t repair a car. My friends would be correct in not trusting me to go under their cars’ hoods unsupervised. Similarly, a friend or colleague who cannot be trusted to understand the device they’re using cannot be trusted with matters of confidence in that context.

Re: Class-action suit claims Otter AI records private work conversations

#46

Post by Confiks »

Confiks wrote: post #27

A month ago a potential customer automatically included their Otter.ai meeting agent into a Teams call. The customer never turned up (he canceled the meeting somewhat later), but me and a colleague chatted a bit in the meeting. Then the Otter.ai meeting agent posted a link in the chat, from which it was clear that everything had been recorded, up to a complete video of the meeting with full facial imagery. As I'm a E…

And out of nowhere, after posting this comment, Otter.ai now has responded after ghosting me for 3,5 weeks. They are no longer quoting the CCPA, but now are misinterpreting the GDPR and claim that every user is their own little GDPR data controller island and they're merely a "hosting platform". It's all very convenient and creative.

Their response:

    Thank you for reaching out to Otter.ai. Under Articles 12 and 17 of the GDPR, Otter.ai is able to delete personal data that is stored in and controlled by your own account. However, Otter.ai cannot delete personal data that is stored in another user’s account. In those cases, Otter.ai acts as the processor or hosting platform, and the other user is the controller for that content. As such, only that account holder has the authority to remove the content.

    If you wish to have such data deleted, we recommend that you contact the relevant user directly and exercise your rights under the GDPR with them.

    Thank you,
    Otter.ai Privacy Team
To which I responded:

    To whom am I speaking? Is this the Privacy Officer? Why have you been ignoring emails for 3,5 weeks since the 23rd of July, while a GDPR request was filed on the 8th of July?

    You know very well that a meeting agent of Otter.ai, the emails by Otter.ai and the website of Otter.ai fall under the direct responsibility of Otter.ai as data controller. Your privacy statement in no way supports a narrative that Otter.ai would act as a so called "hosting platform". It's preposterous to suggest that every one of your users – not being a company but a private person – would be it's own little GDPR data controller island and you're merely an accidental processor of data. Jurisprudence is very clear on this and this notion will be outright rejected.

    The deadline has long passed, I'm initiating a court procedure this week.

    Hoogachtend,

Re: Class-action suit claims Otter AI records private work conversations

#47

Post by edot »

Confiks wrote: post #46
Confiks wrote: post #27

A month ago a potential customer automatically included their Otter.ai meeting agent into a Teams call. The customer never turned up (he canceled the meeting somewhat later), but me and a colleague chatted a bit in the meeting. Then the Otter.ai meeting agent posted a link in the chat, from which it was clear that everything had been recorded, up to a complete video of the meeting with full facial imagery. As I'm a E…

And out of nowhere, after posting this comment, Otter.ai now has responded after ghosting me for 3,5 weeks. They are no longer quoting the CCPA, but now are misinterpreting the GDPR and claim that every user is their own little GDPR data controller island and they're merely a "hosting platform". It's all very convenient and creative. Their response: Thank you for reaching out to Otter.ai. Under Articles 12 and 17 of…

What curious timing! Glad you're using your rights to punish this company. A coworker at a prior company used Otter.ai once or twice, and from then on we all called it the Otter Infection until IT was able to purge it from our systems somehow. It kept getting into meetings it had no business getting into.

Re: Class-action suit claims Otter AI records private work conversations

#49

Post by matthewdgreen »

cj wrote: post #42
matthewdgreen wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I meant the standard product experience for meeting recording tools.

Right. The standard UX does not include anything that would indicate to other attendees that the meeting is being recorded.

I’m still not sure what we’re talking about. When I turn on recording in Zoom, a booming voice announces that “this meeting is being recorded” to all participants. In older conferencing systems you’d get similar recorded warnings and sometimes loud beeps every so often.

Re: Class-action suit claims Otter AI records private work conversations

#50

Post by cj »

matthewdgreen wrote: post #49
cj wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. The standard UX does not include anything that would indicate to other attendees that the meeting is being recorded.

I’m still not sure what we’re talking about. When I turn on recording in Zoom, a booming voice announces that “this meeting is being recorded” to all participants. In older conferencing systems you’d get similar recorded warnings and sometimes loud beeps every so often.

That’s if you’re using Zoom’s built-in recording.

Services like Notion, Otter, Limitless, etc all provide the ability to record without having anything visible in the meeting. It doesn’t rely on Zoom’s built-in recording feature. Meaning the meeting will appear as if there’s no recording taking place.

They work via an app you install on your computer which hooks in to your computer’s audio in/out.

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