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A privacy VPN you can verify

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Re: A privacy VPN you can verify

#41

Post by e2le »

ranger_danger wrote: post #2

Hard disagree... not only is SGX deprecated and was also removed from recent processors due to security issues IIRC, it still can't prove that your requests are actually being served by the code they say they're running. The machine/keys you get back from their server could be from anywhere and might be completely unrelated.

> A pivot by Intel in 2021 resulted in the deprecation of SGX from the 11th and 12th generation Intel Core processors, but development continues on Intel Xeon for cloud and enterprise use.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_Guard_Extensions

Re: A privacy VPN you can verify

#42

Post by duskwuff »

MagicalTux wrote: post #37
remram wrote: post #16

What does the verifiable program do though? With a VPN, what I'm concerned about is my traffic not being sniffed and analyzed. This code seem to have something to do with keys but it's not clear how that helps...?

This is the server-side part of things. It receives encrypted traffic from your (and other customers) device, and routes it to the Internet. This guarantees that your traffic isn't being linked to you, and is mixed up with others in a way that makes it difficult for someone to attribute it to you, as long as you also protect yourself on the application side (clear cookies, no tracking browser extension, etc)

> This guarantees that your traffic isn't being linked to you, and is mixed up with others in a way that makes it difficult for someone to attribute it to you

What would prevent you (or someone who has gained access to your infrastructure) from routing each connection to a unique instance of the server software and tracking what traffic goes in/out of each instance?

Re: A privacy VPN you can verify

#43

Post by selkin »

b8 wrote: post #23

They claim to allow anonymous sign up and payments, but requires an email,an account, zip code and name for Crypto payments, but fake info could be used I guess. I tried ordering via Crypto, but it constantly gives me this error: "Unable to load order information. Try again". Honestly, I feel more comfortable using Mullvad. This team has some folks with questionable backgrounds and I wouldn't trust Intel. Also VPN pr…

Being outside the US doesn’t shield you from it.

And worse, it is harder for the American government to eavesdrop on US soil than it is outside America.

Of course, if a national spying apparatus is after you, regardless of the nation, pretty good chance jurisdiction doesn’t matter.

Re: A privacy VPN you can verify

#44

Post by [deleted] »

MagicalTux wrote: post #28
john01dav wrote: post #20

One of the main use cases of a VPN is against governments, but a government making Intel compromise SGX is plausible given what we know from Snowden.

The US government might be able to pressure Intel into doing something with SGX, but there are way too many eyes on this for it to go unnoticed in my opinion, especially considering SGX has been around for so long and messed with by so many security researchers. The US government also likely learned a lesson from early attempts at backdoors (RSA, etc) that this kind of things do not stay hidden and do not reflect wel…

[deleted]

Re: A privacy VPN you can verify

#45

Post by MagicalTux »

stavros wrote: post #39

How does this attestation work? How can I be sure that this isn't just returning the fingerprint I expect without actually running in an enclave at all? Does Intel sign those messages?

Similar to TLS, the attestation includes a signature and a x509 certificate with a chain of trust to Intel's CA. The whole attestation is certified by Intel to be valid and details such as the enclave fingerprint (MRENCLAVE) are generated by the CPU to be part of the attestation.

This whole process is already widely used in financial and automotive sectors to ensure servers are indeed running what they claim to be running, and well documented.

Re: A privacy VPN you can verify

#46

Post by OsrsNeedsf2P »

MagicalTux wrote: post #32
exfil wrote: post #29

These VPN's for privacy are so bad. You give your credit card (verified identity), default gateway and payload to foreign soil and feel safe. On top of that your packets clear text metadata verifies you with cryptographic accuracy. In today's internet you just cannot have exit IP which is not tied either into your identity, payment information or physical location. And don't even mention TOR, pls.

You're welcome to use cryptocurrencies (we have a page for that), and our system only links your identity at connection time to ensure you have a valid subscription. Your traffic isn't tied to your identity, and you can look at the code to verify that.

Cryptocurrencies? Aka the least private form of transactions, where not only the sender and receiver know, but the whole block chain immutably stores for everyone else to view?

Re: A privacy VPN you can verify

#47

Post by kwanbix »

OsrsNeedsf2P wrote: post #46
MagicalTux wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're welcome to use cryptocurrencies (we have a page for that), and our system only links your identity at connection time to ensure you have a valid subscription. Your traffic isn't tied to your identity, and you can look at the code to verify that.

Cryptocurrencies? Aka the least private form of transactions, where not only the sender and receiver know, but the whole block chain immutably stores for everyone else to view?

So what do you suggest instead?

Re: A privacy VPN you can verify

#48

Post by stavros »

MagicalTux wrote: post #45
stavros wrote: post #39

How does this attestation work? How can I be sure that this isn't just returning the fingerprint I expect without actually running in an enclave at all? Does Intel sign those messages?

Similar to TLS, the attestation includes a signature and a x509 certificate with a chain of trust to Intel's CA. The whole attestation is certified by Intel to be valid and details such as the enclave fingerprint (MRENCLAVE) are generated by the CPU to be part of the attestation. This whole process is already widely used in financial and automotive sectors to ensure servers are indeed running what they claim to be ru…

That's very informative, thanks!

Re: A privacy VPN you can verify

#49

Post by A1kmm »

tossaway23523 wrote: post #12
MagicalTux wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems fairly similar, ARM's response to TEE basically. We started with SGX because it is battle tested and has a lot of people still trying to find issues, meaning any issue is likely solved quickly, however we are planning to also evaluate and support other solutions. Information is restricted and cannot leave the enclave unless the code running in there allows it to in both cases.

> battle tested lol SGX has been broken time and again SGX has 0-day exploits live in the wild as we speak so... valiant attempt in terms of your product... but utterly unsuitable foundation

And once a CPU is attacked with a voltage glitching type attack, the compromise is so complete that the secret seeds burned into the hardware are leaked.

Once they are leaked, there is no going back for that secret seed - i.e. that physical CPU. And this attack is entirely offline, so Intel doesn't know which CPUs have had their seeds leaked.

In other words, every time there is a vulnerability like this, no CPU affected can ever be trusted again for attestation purposes. That is rather impractical - so I'd consider even if you trust Intel (unlikely if you consider a government that can coerce Intel to be part of your threat model), SGX provides rather a weak guarantee against well-resourced adversaries (such as the US government).

Re: A privacy VPN you can verify

#50

Post by rasengan »

OsrsNeedsf2P wrote: post #46
MagicalTux wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're welcome to use cryptocurrencies (we have a page for that), and our system only links your identity at connection time to ensure you have a valid subscription. Your traffic isn't tied to your identity, and you can look at the code to verify that.

Cryptocurrencies? Aka the least private form of transactions, where not only the sender and receiver know, but the whole block chain immutably stores for everyone else to view?

> Cryptocurrencies? Aka the least private form of transactions, where not only the sender and receiver know, but the whole block chain immutably stores for everyone else to view?

There are cryptocurrencies like ZCash, Monero, Zano, Freedom Dollar, etc. that are sufficiently private.

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