Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Is Germany on the brink of banning ad blockers?

blog.mozilla.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 147 posts

Re: Is Germany on the brink of banning ad blockers?

#41

Post by badestrand »

VonTum wrote: post #6

Who could possibly be in favor of this? Like sure industry lobbying is strong but could any politician really argue they're acting in the interest of their constituents with this?

Traditional news media and print media are really strong in Germany (and for example Spain).

They also made laws happen that limit how Google can link to news sites to prevent Google News from stealing readers.

And they tried to make Google pay each time a user clicks a link that leads to a German news site.

Also there are surcharges on printers (around $50 or so per piece), laptops etc because you might copy copyright-protected texts with it.

And the German online news websites know they lose a lot of money to adblockers so of course they want to ban them.

Re: Is Germany on the brink of banning ad blockers?

#42

Post by kstrauser »

Vinnl wrote: post #31
kstrauser wrote: post #26

A friend raised what I consider a very valid point, that ad blockers are assistive technology for people with ADHD. They prevent the web from being an unusable mess of shiny distraction. And as such, in America, blocking ad blockers is a violation of the ADA. I’m being completely serious here and so is he. I can barely use the web without ad blockers. They make it possible for me to participate in online life. Remove…

Yeah, that's also the main warning from the blog: the reasoning here is that adjusting how the website code executes on your computer is copyright infringement. The effects of that would go way beyond just adblockers.

I strongly agree with that point, too. The notion that you can legally force me to run a bit of arbitrary code you transmit to me is absolutely bonkers.

Re: Is Germany on the brink of banning ad blockers?

#44

Post by SpaceManNabs »

badestrand wrote: post #41
VonTum wrote: post #6

Who could possibly be in favor of this? Like sure industry lobbying is strong but could any politician really argue they're acting in the interest of their constituents with this?

Traditional news media and print media are really strong in Germany (and for example Spain). They also made laws happen that limit how Google can link to news sites to prevent Google News from stealing readers. And they tried to make Google pay each time a user clicks a link that leads to a German news site. Also there are surcharges on printers (around $50 or so per piece), laptops etc because you might copy copyrig…

anti free speech stuff like this is why i only bring burner phones into europe.

Re: Is Germany on the brink of banning ad blockers?

#45

Post by 3036e4 »

trenchpilgrim wrote: post #22
NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on what the license says in the first page of the book. It may actually disallow you ripping out pages. You don't own the book, you merely paid for a limited license to read it per the instructions provided in the license agreement. Anything else would be immoral.

This is not true - you have received a property right to the copy of the content and can legally alter or destroy it. A license in the book cannot override your property right. You may encounter issues if you attempt to distribute the altered copy, but that's not at issue here.

You can even cut out parts of the text to re-sell, which is exactly what press clipping services did for newspapers. No copies were made, so no copyright infringement (that simple logic was fine until someone managed to get DRM-circumvention added to copyright laws).

"The first press clipping agency in London was established in 1852 ... Early clipping services employed women to scan periodicals for mentions of specific names or terms. The marked periodicals were then cut out by men and pasted to dated slips. Women would then sort those slips and clippings to be sent to the services' clients".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_monitoring_service

Re: Is Germany on the brink of banning ad blockers?

#47

Post by limagnolia »

kstrauser wrote: post #37
limagnolia wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I am a huge fan of ad blockers, and as some one with ADHD I am very sympathetic to the argument, I suspect that your friend is not a lawyer, and/or is not very familiar with the limitations of the ADA.

He is not, nor am I, but I don’t see a reason you and I shouldn’t get the same legal protections as other groups. What about blind people who pipe the output of a screen through text-to-speech? Or people with epilepsy who can’t use flashy screens? Or someone who needs to enlarge print or change its contrast? There are plenty of medical reasons to need to alter their browser presentations.

I agree with this in general, but that doesn't necessarily mean it is current law. Now, I will also say I am not a lawyer, and I can't say for certain its not, but having dealt with ADA claims and done a fair amount of research into it, I know that it is often a very misunderstood law. I believe that fighting to protect assistive technologies at all levels is a worthy fight.

Re: Is Germany on the brink of banning ad blockers?

#48

Post by kstrauser »

3036e4 wrote: post #29
NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on what the license says in the first page of the book. It may actually disallow you ripping out pages. You don't own the book, you merely paid for a limited license to read it per the instructions provided in the license agreement. Anything else would be immoral.

No, that is not how copyright works, at least not in this country, but probably not in many countries. You buy a book, not a license. Copyright luckily isn't an unlimited right to dictate exactly how a work is used. Ebooks sadly are different. I only buy DRM-free ebooks that grant me rights similar to what always exists for printed books, but that sadly limits what ebooks I can buy quite significantly.

You cannot coerce me into believing that buying an ebook is any different than buying a physical copy. Either way I’m exchanging money for the right to possess a copy of it. Legal fictions be damned, if I pay for it, I own it, and can do whatever I want with it short of distributing copies of it to others.

Re: Is Germany on the brink of banning ad blockers?

#50

Post by brookst »

kstrauser wrote: post #37
limagnolia wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I am a huge fan of ad blockers, and as some one with ADHD I am very sympathetic to the argument, I suspect that your friend is not a lawyer, and/or is not very familiar with the limitations of the ADA.

He is not, nor am I, but I don’t see a reason you and I shouldn’t get the same legal protections as other groups. What about blind people who pipe the output of a screen through text-to-speech? Or people with epilepsy who can’t use flashy screens? Or someone who needs to enlarge print or change its contrast? There are plenty of medical reasons to need to alter their browser presentations.

IANAL, but the critical thing to know is that the ADA doesn’t mean that every assistive technology is mandated / required. Wheelchair users would benefit from dedicated elevators where their face is not butt-level with strangers in tight spaces; the ADA doesn’t mean not mandate this accommodation.
Post reply on HN