Live data from Hacker News

Israel relying on Microsoft cloud for expansive surveillance of Palestinians

theguardian.com

41–50 of 57 posts

Re: Israel relying on Microsoft cloud for expansive surveillance of Palestinians

#41
post #31
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then I suggest you actually read the manifest. Oh, I should probably declare you technically correct. He does not call for a massacre, just a violent revolution. These are technically not exactly the same. They turned out the same in practice though.

Violence has been used for good ends such as deposing monarchies and ending slavery. Marx argues that capitalists are akin to the new kings. Witnessing billionaires funding the destruction of democracy, I wouldn’t say he’s wrong. And you refer to Soviet Russia as if that’s supposed to represent socialism and communism. In fact there are many different kinds of socialists and communists, many who support democracy and…

[deleted]

Re: Israel relying on Microsoft cloud for expansive surveillance of Palestinians

#43
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poverty reduction has largely been the result of China’s mixed economy not unbridled capitalism. Guided markets have played a role there - but that’s because they were guided. We don’t have to accept the authoritarianism or any of other effect of markets, simply because markets have played a role in some of the positive outcomes of the past. In fact for the last 50 years in the global north, roughly the same timefram…

as I said if you remove china from the data the trend is identical. But regarding China specifically it has been the gradual transition to a more market led economy.

To say it’s identical is an overstatement, but markets have been part of China’s policy, and part of the policies many other formerly impoverished counties. Without government policy intelligently choosing how to utilize markets (which is what happened in most of these formerly impoverished countries like the “Asian tigers”), markets alone could not have have brought the gains that they did. Markets have many downsides to them as well. Additionally non-government, non-market factors like unionization contributed to the rise out of poverty as well. And in the global north, “markets” have been fairly ineffective at raising the standard of living for the median worker. They have been effective at enriching the already rich however, contributing to wealth power-concentration and de-democratization.

Re: Israel relying on Microsoft cloud for expansive surveillance of Palestinians

#44
post #36
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Violence has been used for good ends such as deposing monarchies and ending slavery. Marx argues that capitalists are akin to the new kings. Witnessing billionaires funding the destruction of democracy, I wouldn’t say he’s wrong. And you refer to Soviet Russia as if that’s supposed to represent socialism and communism. In fact there are many different kinds of socialists and communists, many who support democracy and…

You know as well as I do that when Marx discussed "capitalists" he did not mean the rich. He meant what we now call the middle class. Managers. Engineers. Store owners. (Small) company owners. Factory owners. Smaller landlords. Perhaps upper middle class, but not the real rich, the families. He saw what everyone else in their time (correctly) saw: that larger land owners were mostly outside of cities, and were well o…

Quite a lot of factual inaccuracies here.

> He meant what we now call the middle class.

Capitalists according to Marx are those that own the means of production, not the middle class.

> larger land owners were mostly outside of cities, and were well on the way to inevitable bankruptcy

He saw them as a declining class that would eventually merge with the industrial bourgeoisie. He didn’t predict their inevitable bankruptcy.

> quite a few governments in his time were individuals or families, but he didn't see them as the enemy, kind of, but not as the "source" of the evil of capitalism

Again, inaccurate. His view is that the state is an apparatus of the capitalist class structured to protect its property and interests. The state and the uber-rich are the primary enemies of the working class, in his view.

> Soviets initially offered to make Tsar Nicolas II the leader of international socialism. Only when he kept refusing did he become the enemy.

Citation needed. Are you just fabricating things? The Bolsheviks ideology was based on the idea that there would be a proletarian revolution that would dismantle the old capitalist and aristocratic order, which the Tsar represented.

> that wasn't true communism" argument!

There are many different varieties of socialism and communism. In fact many societies long into pre-recorded history have been peaceful, leaderless and without money - communist. Yet it would be a mistake to call those societies Stalinist for example.

> get everyone to work and back each day on rocket powered trams. Seriously.

Soviet plans were never that fantastical. Fabrication.

> the godess Gaia is a Titan who massacred, and then ate people. Men, women, children. Especially children

Gaia isn’t typically represented that way. She is not a Titan but mother of the Titans. Maybe you are thinking of Kronos.

Re: Israel relying on Microsoft cloud for expansive surveillance of Palestinians

#45
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

as I said if you remove china from the data the trend is identical. But regarding China specifically it has been the gradual transition to a more market led economy.

To say it’s identical is an overstatement, but markets have been part of China’s policy, and part of the policies many other formerly impoverished counties. Without government policy intelligently choosing how to utilize markets (which is what happened in most of these formerly impoverished countries like the “Asian tigers”), markets alone could not have have brought the gains that they did. Markets have many downsid…

no it is an identical plot on the graph, not an overstatement at all.

The standard of living for the median worker has improved significantly in forty years let alone two hundred, lifestyle inflation is definitely rapid as you would expect with progress, wage growth has outpaced inflation for everyone but public sector workers.

Bad as things may seem now, we are all richer than ever before.

Re: Israel relying on Microsoft cloud for expansive surveillance of Palestinians

#46
post #31
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then I suggest you actually read the manifest. Oh, I should probably declare you technically correct. He does not call for a massacre, just a violent revolution. These are technically not exactly the same. They turned out the same in practice though.

Violence has been used for good ends such as deposing monarchies and ending slavery. Marx argues that capitalists are akin to the new kings. Witnessing billionaires funding the destruction of democracy, I wouldn’t say he’s wrong. And you refer to Soviet Russia as if that’s supposed to represent socialism and communism. In fact there are many different kinds of socialists and communists, many who support democracy and…

> Violence has been used for good ends such as deposing monarchies and ending slavery.

Under this paradigm it's miraculous that we tolerate hundreds of years of oppression and racism from the whites peaceably.

If you call for bloody revolution and simultaneously identify yourselves as the villains, don't be surprised when we come busting down your doors.

Re: Israel relying on Microsoft cloud for expansive surveillance of Palestinians

#48
post #38
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's flagged again. What's vouching?

There's a "vouch" button on flagged comments and some flagged stories, which will unflag a story. I'm not entirely sure under which conditions it's available on flagged stories (it's almost always there for flagged comments). I think it probably gets disabled after it got flagged → vouched → flagged, or something? You need at least 500 (or more?) reputation points regardless.

I have >1800 reps and I've never seen that

Re: Israel relying on Microsoft cloud for expansive surveillance of Palestinians

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not [dead], which means vouching already worked.

Why am I downvoted? Here are some links: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43134721 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43744890 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43538728 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43268468

> Why am I downvoted?

I would guess that it's because you said "already worked" which people probably read as meaning that it is now visible in /news.

Re: Israel relying on Microsoft cloud for expansive surveillance of Palestinians

#50
post #48
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a "vouch" button on flagged comments and some flagged stories, which will unflag a story. I'm not entirely sure under which conditions it's available on flagged stories (it's almost always there for flagged comments). I think it probably gets disabled after it got flagged → vouched → flagged, or something? You need at least 500 (or more?) reputation points regardless.

I have >1800 reps and I've never seen that

It's only on [dead] items, not [flagged]. Sometimes it's [flagged][dead] but the only thing that matters for allowing to vouch is if it's [dead].
Post reply on HN