Trump's tariffs forced a historic trade deal between Japan, China, and Korea, three countries that historically hate each other. If Trump managed to accidentally force Taiwan and China to settle their differences, it might be a sign of the rapture.
US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief
41–50 of 560 posts
Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief
#42I'm kinda of shocked that chip & many tech companies play ball.. They are a required / no alternatives industry by so much of the USA, with limited alternatives. Is it really more cost-effective for each of these companies to spend hundreds of billions of dollars to avoid tariffs when they could easily pass on these costs because we have no alternatives?
Honestly, this is a win-win for TSMC. Intel isn't dead. They've made some bad choices and investments but they're still huge. They have $30 billion in gross profit per year on an utterly boring, non-hype based business model. Get rid of some dead weight, write off the bad investments, improve their foundry business and their value easily grows multiples of what it currently is. On top of it already being a shrewd bus…
Intel is not profitable. They have negative eps and negative free cash flow. The cash flows from existing products can't be considered in isolation. If their R+D and Capex investments stopped, the sum total of the existing+legacy cash flows wouldn't nearly cover Intel's substantial liabilities.
They also have 50 billion dollars in debt, and their cash flow situation has gotten so desperate that slices of future fab revenue have been pawned off to private equity, who now has a senior claim on the assets (as do the bondholders).
An equity stake and Intel is not something that a TSMC would want without coercion. It's just not a very attractive place to be an equity holder.
>Get rid of some dead weight, write off the bad investments, improve their foundry business and their value easily grows multiples of what it currently is.
As if it was that easy. The company has now been through multiple CEOs attempting to mix up these ideas in various ways. The last CEO tried to do a Hail Mary to improve the foundry business, but the balance sheet can't support it. Now the new CEO is essentially writing off those investments and putting them on the back burner. Considering that, getting rid of the dead weight will be difficult, considering the company itself is largely dead weight... The quality of their employees is not good, or at least not nearly at the level that needs to be (18A yields are alarmingly low, and that's the critical product that basically determines the company's future. 14a is already looking more and more distant despite it being the purported savior not even a year ago).
Realistically, their financial situation puts them right at the precipice of needing to shed the fabs, and/or permanently continue down the path of more Brookstone-like partnerships where they can spread the burden (which then caps the equity holder upside).
There is nothing "easy" about the current situation. Maybe without the 50 billion in debt, but nearly all of remedial paths are running into nasty balance sheet constraints. There's no more room to spend quarters rejiggering the thing.
Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief
#43I'm kinda of shocked that chip & many tech companies play ball.. They are a required / no alternatives industry by so much of the USA, with limited alternatives. Is it really more cost-effective for each of these companies to spend hundreds of billions of dollars to avoid tariffs when they could easily pass on these costs because we have no alternatives?
>I'm kinda of shocked that chip & many tech companies play ball..
Have you heard of this story? https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2007/10/qwest-ceo-nsa-punished...
The only telecom in America to resist turning on a domestic eavesdropping firehose tap for the government, was pounded to the edge of bankruptcy.
Intel and TSMC are both strategically important and favored-status corporations for the going concern of the United States, and large swaths of the federal appartatus are invested in their success, contracts, global projection, etc. That comes with a price. Naive to think they are independently operated companies.
Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
Honestly, this is a win-win for TSMC. Intel isn't dead. They've made some bad choices and investments but they're still huge. They have $30 billion in gross profit per year on an utterly boring, non-hype based business model. Get rid of some dead weight, write off the bad investments, improve their foundry business and their value easily grows multiples of what it currently is. On top of it already being a shrewd bus…
But the US government has proven to be unreliable in maintaining commitments -- even words on paper are meaningless as it doesn't seem to stop them from changing the deal later and demanding more ("I have change the terms of our agreement, pray I do not alter them further"), and then another request demanding more. Would TSMC be doing the government a favor and gaining protection, or are they being extorted? ("would…
Does it really matter? Does TSMC have a choice either way?
They’re a globally important company but they’re not ASML and they’re stuck between two superpowers and the threat of potential total war. They’ve had the misfortune of being sucked into geopolitical maelstrom and those tides are far too strong for any company to resist.
Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief
#45I'm kinda of shocked that chip & many tech companies play ball.. They are a required / no alternatives industry by so much of the USA, with limited alternatives. Is it really more cost-effective for each of these companies to spend hundreds of billions of dollars to avoid tariffs when they could easily pass on these costs because we have no alternatives?
Honestly, this is a win-win for TSMC. Intel isn't dead. They've made some bad choices and investments but they're still huge. They have $30 billion in gross profit per year on an utterly boring, non-hype based business model. Get rid of some dead weight, write off the bad investments, improve their foundry business and their value easily grows multiples of what it currently is. On top of it already being a shrewd bus…
>> doing a favour for the US government also potentially buys protection for TSMC and Taiwan from China. Plus the immediate tariff relief.
They already built fabs in the US. The thing about protection money is the bully keeps asking for it again and again.
Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief
#46This whole economy by corruption and coercion is not going to work out.
The economy of "corruption" and "coercion" is Neoliberal Economics 101. Send your regards to pseudo economic theory from the Chicago School of Economics (ie, Milton Friedman); and to Reaganomics/trickle down economics.
Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief
#47Tariffs kinda make sense when you have a deficit in a widely available item. Big trade deficit with Bangladesh? Sure you can buy cheap textiles from Thailand or Vietnam or something. Unfortunately this approach does not work when you lack a viable domestic alternative and you're up against a monopoly. What will the US do if TSMC does not blink? Not buy TSMC made chips? Obviously that is impossible, so the logical con…
With this administration, it's probably just more blackmail, in the form of "it would be a pity if nobody came to the rescue when China eventually puts its Taiwan plans in motion! (Not that playing ball is a guarantee of anything either)".
Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief
#48Tariffs kinda make sense when you have a deficit in a widely available item. Big trade deficit with Bangladesh? Sure you can buy cheap textiles from Thailand or Vietnam or something. Unfortunately this approach does not work when you lack a viable domestic alternative and you're up against a monopoly. What will the US do if TSMC does not blink? Not buy TSMC made chips? Obviously that is impossible, so the logical con…
> ... American consumers will end up paying the tariffs
This has always been the case. I have never heard of a company absorbing tariffs on behalf of consumers in the day and age of "trickle down economics".
Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief
#49I'm kinda of shocked that chip & many tech companies play ball.. They are a required / no alternatives industry by so much of the USA, with limited alternatives. Is it really more cost-effective for each of these companies to spend hundreds of billions of dollars to avoid tariffs when they could easily pass on these costs because we have no alternatives?
>I'm kinda of shocked that chip & many tech companies play ball.. Have you heard of this story? https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2007/10/qwest-ceo-nsa-punished... The only telecom in America to resist turning on a domestic eavesdropping firehose tap for the government, was pounded to the edge of bankruptcy. Intel and TSMC are both strategically important and favored-status corporations for the going concern of the Unite…
Bernie died in prison because he didn't want to give them access to Worldcom so the story goes.
Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
But the US government has proven to be unreliable in maintaining commitments -- even words on paper are meaningless as it doesn't seem to stop them from changing the deal later and demanding more ("I have change the terms of our agreement, pray I do not alter them further"), and then another request demanding more. Would TSMC be doing the government a favor and gaining protection, or are they being extorted? ("would…
Does it really matter? Does TSMC have a choice either way? They’re a globally important company but they’re not ASML and they’re stuck between two superpowers and the threat of potential total war. They’ve had the misfortune of being sucked into geopolitical maelstrom and those tides are far too strong for any company to resist.
>> Does it really matter? Does TSMC have a choice either way?
Sure. Go home and make chips. Pass the tarrif costs on to customers. Would US customers have a choice?