One gripe I have with Lenovo keyboards is that the Fn key is at the left-most edge of the bottom row. Per my muscle memory, it's the Control key that ought to be there, not Fn.
This can be switched in BIOS.
ThinkPad designer David Hill on unreleased models
41–50 of 131 posts
Re: ThinkPad designer David Hill on unreleased models
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
The Framework keyboard is precisely why I haven’t bought one. The mixed height arrow key thing sucked on the touchbar MacBook Pros, they suck on FWs too. The second the 13 gets a normal inverted T, I buy one. In the meantime, I’m waiting on a display converter board to show up from China so I can install a modernish 1440p display in my T420.
The “normal” inverted T is just another variation of the same suckage as far as I’m concerned (slightly worse, if anything, because I tend to wear away the paint—and eventually plastic—on a tiny left-arrow key faster than on a normal one). Look at the photos in TFA[1] for how good arrow keys are arranged. [1] e.g. https://regmedia.co.uk/2025/07/30/hill7.jpg (the presence of a Break key almost makes me cry)
> https://regmedia.co.uk/2025/07/30/hill7.jpg
Doesn't this photo show an inverted T?
Re: ThinkPad designer David Hill on unreleased models
#43I miss the ThinkLight (and the dual-light idea he had sounds great). Useful when working in a dark environment to look at papers and whatnot, or just to provide a nice amount of ambient light to smooth out the contrast between the screen itself and your surroundings. Most modern laptops have backlit keys, but those don't help in those cases; they are pretty much only useful for people who can't touch type.
Yeah, it has got me "in the zone" for writing many times. On a side note, I also like the "click" when I close the lid on my T42. Mentally balancing for sure :).
I bought a used P50 for our son, and while it's allright (even the keyboard -- although it doesn't give that particular feel of the T4x era keyboards), it lacks both of those extra-relevant features. No click on closing, and a mere backlit keyboard. But, that's life!
Re: ThinkPad designer David Hill on unreleased models
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
The “normal” inverted T is just another variation of the same suckage as far as I’m concerned (slightly worse, if anything, because I tend to wear away the paint—and eventually plastic—on a tiny left-arrow key faster than on a normal one). Look at the photos in TFA[1] for how good arrow keys are arranged. [1] e.g. https://regmedia.co.uk/2025/07/30/hill7.jpg (the presence of a Break key almost makes me cry)
> https://regmedia.co.uk/2025/07/30/hill7.jpg Doesn't this photo show an inverted T?
I think a “normal” inverted T consists of half-height keys (i.e. used on most current laptops). ThinkPads used slightly higher arrow keys for a while, not sure about now.
Re: ThinkPad designer David Hill on unreleased models
#45The fibrous Trackpoint is still my absolute favourite. For folks who want more in-depth backstory, going all the way back to the beginning and the origin of the "ThinkPad" name see: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/483933.ThinkPad I really wish that there would be a true heir to the mantle, and a return to some of the original ideas, esp. the early stylus models and variants such as the TransNote --- if Lenovo wou…
> (need to find time to buy an updated one (and a spare) w/ USB-C)
Once you find a TrackPoint keyboard model that you like, buy spares, since you might have a hard time getting a good design in the future.
For example, they went to a lot of trouble to develop TrackPoint keyboard SK-8855, with community input, and then discontinued it. To cries of anguish, scalpers and price-gouging on last remaining stock, and, years later, people selling filthy broken used ones for more than they cost new.
https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/solutions/pd005137-thinkpad...
I don't think Lenovo has quite the same design sensibilities as IBM ThinkPad team had:
* "You, the user, want to throw away IBM's famed keyboards, and have a chiclet keyboard as the only option." (No.)
* "You want to remove the function keys that aren't necessary for Twitter." (No.)
* "You want to remove the tactile cues from TrackPoint buttons, so it looks more sleek, for your TikTok scrolling." (No. This is not a mindless "content consumer" device. "Think" is right there, in the name.)
* "You want to remove the TrackPoint buttons altogether, from a workstation laptop, so you can get RSI from clicking with your thumb on the touchpad below instead." (No, and now I think you are just trying to sabotage all the smart people who were using ThinkPads before.)
I'm still surprised that IBM was even allowed by the US gov't to sell ThinkPad to China. It was beloved fleet tech of US big business and government, as well beloved by techies ("innovators"). And maybe also a source of technology excellence pride, like fewer companies are now. Imagine the iPhone business being sold to China. Or Cisco being sold.
Re: ThinkPad designer David Hill on unreleased models
#46One gripe I have with Lenovo keyboards is that the Fn key is at the left-most edge of the bottom row. Per my muscle memory, it's the Control key that ought to be there, not Fn.
Starting in 2024, Lenovo adopted the 'conventional' control/function key layout for ThinkPads.
Re: ThinkPad designer David Hill on unreleased models
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
I question why the butterfly keyboard wouldn't be needed once screens were larger. I use a MNT Reform and a mechanical keyboard is still vastly superior.
You may be thinking of butterfly keyboard switches , which aren't what is being discussed here. The Thinkpad "butterfly keyboard" was a design which moved pieces of the keyboard around to make a keyboard wider than the laptop pop out when the laptop was opened. This video has a demonstration: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVrpRgKS2x4 The purpose of this design was to allow a small laptop, with a small screen, to ha…
Ah yes! My mistake. I didn't realise that was what that was called. I did have one of those for a little while as a lab computer as it beat the size requirements allowed into the lab. I mean it was old for it's time when I used it but plugged in, it would do text files and csv.
Re: ThinkPad designer David Hill on unreleased models
#48I think optimising for thinness is a stupid goal. I get wanting to reduce weight, but volume and mass are two different metrics. Thicker laptops can have better cooling, bigger batteries, easier maintenance, a bloody ethernet port, and probably better keyboards.
For some reason Lenovo has made the ThinkPad keyboard worse with every new generation. They're still better than other laptop keyboards, but my goodness the margin is shrinking.
And while David Hill may claim that Lenovo TPs are as good as (or better than) IBM's, the number of repairs mine have had tell a different story. Since the x230, every single ThinkPad I've owned had to have its mainboard replaced. Sometimes even twice.
Re: ThinkPad designer David Hill on unreleased models
#49I think optimising for thinness is a stupid goal. I get wanting to reduce weight , but volume and mass are two different metrics. Thicker laptops can have better cooling, bigger batteries, easier maintenance, a bloody ethernet port, and probably better keyboards. For some reason Lenovo has made the ThinkPad keyboard worse with every new generation. They're still better than other laptop keyboards, but my goodness the…
Thickness does change the ergonomics when typing
Re: ThinkPad designer David Hill on unreleased models
#50> "It's very difficult to make a seven-row keyboard anymore because of the aspect ratio of the display and the whole arrangement of the pieces on the inside," he said. "It's a decision that was not made lightly, however. I still like the seven-row keyboard and, as aspect ratios change, and they continue to change, I don't know. Maybe someday somebody will be interested in it again." The sad part is, the Framework 13…
We have 1.5mm key travel, the keyboard is replaceable, and the vast majority of our keyboard artwork options don’t have a Copilot logo.