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Games Look Bad: HDR and Tone Mapping (2017)

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Re: Games Look Bad: HDR and Tone Mapping (2017)

#41

Post by HelloUsername »

phoronixrly wrote: post #16
refactor_master wrote: post #7

This is [...] a series examining techniques used in game graphics and how those techniques fail to deliver a visually appealing end result All I see is opinions though. And the internet is full of them. You just have to Google "why does this game look so ...". At least if the author had compared the search stats of "good/bad/beautiful/washed out" it would've carried some weight. The GTA 5 screenshot is a terrible exa…

I think the author's list of "ugly" games is missing Witcher III, Hellblade, God of War (2018), Elden Ring, Baldur's Gate... And we need some examples of good, cinematic, artful tone mapping, like any scene of a Hollywood movie set in Mexico...

> tone mapping, like any scene of a Hollywood movie set in Mexico

That's not tone mapping, but color grading

Re: Games Look Bad: HDR and Tone Mapping (2017)

#42

Post by rendaw »

markus_zhang wrote: post #30

One big issue I never understood is why do we need photorealism in games at all. They seem to benefit card manufacturers and graphic programmers, but other than that I feel it has nothing to do — and in fact may have negative impact on game quality.

I think, like polygon count, resolution, FPS, etc, realism is very easy to objectively assess and compare even with no artistic background, which makes it a target both for gamers (who want to explain why they like a game, or debate which game is better) and studios who want something they can point to.

IMO it leads to really stilted experiences, like where now you have some photo realistic person with their foot hovering slightly in space, or all that but you still see leaves clipping through eachother, or the unanny valley of a super realistic human whose eyes have a robotic lock on your face, etc.

Physical interaction with game worlds (wasd and a single pivot, or maybe a joystick and a couple buttons) hasn't increased in depth in 20 years which only emphasizes the disjointedness.

Re: Games Look Bad: HDR and Tone Mapping (2017)

#43

Post by whywhywhywhy »

dartharva wrote: post #3

It's not just games, it's regular day-to-day UI too. I'm using an Acer 185Hz VRR HDR10 Gaming monitor.. on Eco mode with HDR disabled. Everything just looks better with HDR turned off for some reason I can't explain.

Something is poorly implemented with Windows UI on HDR, and Macbooks it all looks fine then HDR content just appears brighter, I think the rest of the UI becomes duller too at that point but on windows it feels like running HDR on the Windows desktop means the whole screen looks dull, least it does on my 5K HDR Dell.

Not sure if I'm missing a setting, but I end up having to manually turn HDR on before playing a game and off after.

Re: Games Look Bad: HDR and Tone Mapping (2017)

#44

Post by simoncion »

rag-hav wrote: post #34
craxmerax wrote: post #4

When HDR is implemented properly, and you have a proper HDR display, it's such a transformative experience! Most games, however, don't have good HDR implementations. And for whatever reason HDR on Windows is still awful in 2025.

Any examples of good HDR in games?

Here's my list from a couple of months ago, along with some related commentary: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43986463>

Re: Games Look Bad: HDR and Tone Mapping (2017)

#45

Post by akomtu »

uncircle wrote: post #22

I found this video to visualise what tone mapping is trying to achieve, and why "photorealism" is hard to achieve in computer graphics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9AT7H4GGrA And I indirectly taught me how to use the exposure feature in my iPhone camera (when you tap a point in the picture). It's so that you choose the "middle gray" point of the picture for the tone mapping process, using your eyes which have a…

I've heard a good point that our eyes have, in fact, a boring 1:100 range of brightness. Eyes can rapidly adjust, but the real game changer is our ability to create an image in our video memory, which has an unlimited brightness range. Eyes give us maybe a 2d uint8 framebuffer, but our mind creates and updates a float32 3d buffer. This is why this experience cannot be reproduced on a screen.

Re: Games Look Bad: HDR and Tone Mapping (2017)

#47

Post by simoncion »

mg wrote: post #20

I really don't know what to think of HDR. I have yet to get any benefit out of it. I disable it everywhere I can. In Instagram for example. When it is turned on (the default) every now and then I get some crazy glaring image in my feed that hurts. Maybe it is because I don't play games? Is HDR useful anywhere outside of games?

> ...I get some crazy glaring image in my feed that hurts.

Are you using an Apple machine to do your browsing? I have heard that Apple has (for some damn reason) decided to do this sort of crap with HDR-pictures-in-an-otherwise-SDR-document. It's nuts. This doesn't happen to me on Windows, and -because I use xorg- I've no idea what happens on Linux.

Re: Games Look Bad: HDR and Tone Mapping (2017)

#48

Post by glimshe »

markus_zhang wrote: post #30

One big issue I never understood is why do we need photorealism in games at all. They seem to benefit card manufacturers and graphic programmers, but other than that I feel it has nothing to do — and in fact may have negative impact on game quality.

We don't need photorealism in games, but it does help with immersion. Many people, like me, feel like they are inside the game world, rather than playing a game with a TV/monitor in front of them. Photorealism is essential for this feeling - at least for me .

The most amazing gaming experience I've ever had was walking around the city at night in Cyberpunk 2077. For the first time in my life, I felt I was actually in the future. Zelda can't pull that off with me, despite being a great game from other perspectives.

Re: Games Look Bad: HDR and Tone Mapping (2017)

#49

Post by simoncion »

tobyhinloopen wrote: post #18
dartharva wrote: post #3

It's not just games, it's regular day-to-day UI too. I'm using an Acer 185Hz VRR HDR10 Gaming monitor.. on Eco mode with HDR disabled. Everything just looks better with HDR turned off for some reason I can't explain.

Unless it's a MINI LED or OLED display, it simply doesn't have the contrast to properly render a lot of what makes HDR... HDR. Calibrate the display with HDR enabled for a better SDR response.

VA screens have pretty damn good contrast, and OLED monitors tend to have low peak (and sometimes even spot!) brightness.

A while back, I tried an OLED gaming monitor that was widely reviewed as being very good. While it was somewhat better than the VA monitor that I've been using for years, it was nowhere near 1,500 USD good. I could see someone coming from an IPS or TN screen being very impressed with it, though.

Re: Games Look Bad: HDR and Tone Mapping (2017)

#50

Post by ehnto »

glimshe wrote: post #48
markus_zhang wrote: post #30

One big issue I never understood is why do we need photorealism in games at all. They seem to benefit card manufacturers and graphic programmers, but other than that I feel it has nothing to do — and in fact may have negative impact on game quality.

We don't need photorealism in games, but it does help with immersion. Many people, like me, feel like they are inside the game world, rather than playing a game with a TV/monitor in front of them. Photorealism is essential for this feeling - at least for me . The most amazing gaming experience I've ever had was walking around the city at night in Cyberpunk 2077. For the first time in my life, I felt I was actually in…

You're not alone, Cyberpunk's blend of near-future with realism whilst maintaining a clear art style that is not total realism is very immersive. I have spent countless hours wandering around Night City, not even playing the main gameplay.
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