Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

I'm tired of talking about AI

paddy.carvers.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 65 posts

Re: I'm tired of talking about AI

#41

Post by mirekrusin »

andybak wrote: post #34
mdaniel wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMHO, if bitcoin mining had given some people $10MM and debited other people $10, but each one at random, no matter what --temperature= was provided to the mining CLI, you'd have likely seen the same discussion > It's making me rich! It's making me poor! Well then you're holding it wrong! Well you're spending electricity on senseless compute! Well you're just living in a fiat past! (nod)

One thing I think is pertinent - I don't think many people currently have been made poorer by AI. I'm not disputing many people think it's an imminent risk - but I think the number of people directly affected financially in a negative way is currently vanishingly small.

It made stack overflow poorer.

Re: I'm tired of talking about AI

#42

Post by vouaobrasil »

andybak wrote: post #36
vouaobrasil wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is because it is a direct attack against human creativity. It separates people into two very disparate classes: those who want to use and develop it to become more efficient and rich, and those who hate it with a passion because for them, it takes away the beauty of humanity at the forefront of creativity. Unlike blockchain, the philosophy and morality of these two classes, one represented by efficiency and one re…

OK - so I deeply value human creativity and I disagree with your first statement. At least I think we don't currently know whether it will work out this way. My hunch is that human creativity is incredibly resilient and will route around damage. (But employability in creative professions? That's a slightly different topic - an orthogonal one strictly speaking)

I think we already do, at least for many people. AI-generated stuff reduces the value that humans put on human creation because human-only creation is harder to find. AI takes the joy of discovery out of many processes and activities. It's of course harder to get jobs in creative fields now such as translation and graphic design. It's a devaluing of creativity and it's discouraging to quite a few creatives. The very fact that many artists already feel depressed about AI is already itself a huge negative impact on creativity.

I can't tell you how many people have told me how depressed they are about AI and how they have less impetus to create things. Although one can certainly do it still for joy, it's harder for many in an environment that is so ruthless.

Re: I'm tired of talking about AI

#43

Post by vouaobrasil »

AudiomaticApp wrote: post #40
vouaobrasil wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is because it is a direct attack against human creativity. It separates people into two very disparate classes: those who want to use and develop it to become more efficient and rich, and those who hate it with a passion because for them, it takes away the beauty of humanity at the forefront of creativity. Unlike blockchain, the philosophy and morality of these two classes, one represented by efficiency and one re…

I have been an artist since I was a child and I disagree with you. Some of my favorite works of human creativity have made use of AI, or been inspired by the field.

Yes, there will always be exceptions, especially at the beginning. But economically, human-only art will suffer in the long term as AI becomes more sophisticated and fewer people have the opportunity to make a living from art.

But one or two exceptions, especially on HN (where people are highly addicted to technology), does not make a case for AI.

Re: I'm tired of talking about AI

#44

Post by vouaobrasil »

jplusequalt wrote: post #39
vouaobrasil wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is because it is a direct attack against human creativity. It separates people into two very disparate classes: those who want to use and develop it to become more efficient and rich, and those who hate it with a passion because for them, it takes away the beauty of humanity at the forefront of creativity. Unlike blockchain, the philosophy and morality of these two classes, one represented by efficiency and one re…

There's also the topic of labor that ties in here. Creators (and I'd argue most computer related jobs) are now having to compete against technology for wages.

Absolutely right, which will make it harder to make a living from creativity. A lot of people do, such as graphic designers, who will have to turn to other jobs to keep eating. And that is discouraging, even if they can do art in their spare time.

Re: I'm tired of talking about AI

#45

Post by colinsane »

what i hated about AI discourse a year ago was how far removed it was from anything concrete. nobody seemed to have a _purpose_ in building AI; no thing they wanted to use it _for_. it was a silly text or image generator, would someday become a "do everything" device, and the progression from here to there was unknowable: it was just a plot device for anyone suddenly interested in writing speculative fiction.

in my vicinity, the sci-fi discourse has died down the last few months. my coworkers will _show me_ how they use these tools when i ask them, and are building on/with them incrementally. the shift in tone is encouraging. there's space for actual practical discourse around this stuff now. chat about concrete things with your friends/coworkers -- if you're interested in it. ignore the media, CEO interviews and LinkedIn hype posts: they're playing a different sort of game that you're probably happier off not being a part of.

Re: I'm tired of talking about AI

#46

Post by mdaniel »

andybak wrote: post #34
mdaniel wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMHO, if bitcoin mining had given some people $10MM and debited other people $10, but each one at random, no matter what --temperature= was provided to the mining CLI, you'd have likely seen the same discussion > It's making me rich! It's making me poor! Well then you're holding it wrong! Well you're spending electricity on senseless compute! Well you're just living in a fiat past! (nod)

One thing I think is pertinent - I don't think many people currently have been made poorer by AI. I'm not disputing many people think it's an imminent risk - but I think the number of people directly affected financially in a negative way is currently vanishingly small.

That's only true if one or both of these things is true in your experience:

1. opportunity cost isn't real

1. the ${whatever amount}/${some time} subscription cost to any one of the 15+ of the AI offerings isn't financially affecting

That latter one is of especial interest to me because quite a few of the "you're holding it wrong" arguments devolve into "well, you just don't have the Platnium X99 Plus latest awesomesauce, and if you did then it'd solve the P-NP problem for you, too"

Re: I'm tired of talking about AI

#47

Post by happytoexplain »

vouaobrasil wrote: post #44
jplusequalt wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also the topic of labor that ties in here. Creators (and I'd argue most computer related jobs) are now having to compete against technology for wages.

Absolutely right, which will make it harder to make a living from creativity. A lot of people do, such as graphic designers, who will have to turn to other jobs to keep eating. And that is discouraging, even if they can do art in their spare time.

Agreed - with one caveat: "Discouraging" is an understatement, to put it lightly. I think the top 25th percentile of people in software tend to underestimate how difficult it is to switch careers for the vast majority of all people, and what the consequences of that are.

Re: I'm tired of talking about AI

#48

Post by tines »

happytoexplain wrote: post #26
andybak wrote: post #19

AI seems to elicit a different response from people than any other debate I can remember. It's different to blockchain (which had a similar level of "will you all just shut the fuck up about it?") It's different to culture war stuff (which was very toxic and hard to have sensible discussions about - but in a different way). It's the only topic in my lifetime where I have to remember not to even mention it to several…

To oversimplify: Because it's real .

More like, because it's pleasurable enough that people will accept it as a substitute for the real. Delusional people are marrying their AIs, for example.

Re: I'm tired of talking about AI

#49

Post by crazygringo »

andybak wrote: post #19

AI seems to elicit a different response from people than any other debate I can remember. It's different to blockchain (which had a similar level of "will you all just shut the fuck up about it?") It's different to culture war stuff (which was very toxic and hard to have sensible discussions about - but in a different way). It's the only topic in my lifetime where I have to remember not to even mention it to several…

Completely agreed. Also literally the only topic I've ever had to avoid with friends. It's not just that we can good-naturedly agree to disagree (like we can with religion, politics, etc.), but they are allergic to even the mention of it. It is something they very actively want to not talk about, which I've never experienced before.

You're right that it's weird in a different way, and I still can't quite put my finger on why.

Re: I'm tired of talking about AI

#50

Post by amelius »

andybak wrote: post #19

AI seems to elicit a different response from people than any other debate I can remember. It's different to blockchain (which had a similar level of "will you all just shut the fuck up about it?") It's different to culture war stuff (which was very toxic and hard to have sensible discussions about - but in a different way). It's the only topic in my lifetime where I have to remember not to even mention it to several…

This technology promises to turn us into human cows. What do you expect?
Post reply on HN