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New records on Wendelstein 7-X

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41–50 of 112 posts

Re: New records on Wendelstein 7-X

#41

Looking at the picture, I wonder if complexity of these devices will significantly be reduced once it finally works. I assume a lot of the bells and whistles are needed to find the way, but once it's found..

These reactors are build for research, so presumably they need to be more modular, have more measuring components and be more accessible for changes.

Re: New records on Wendelstein 7-X

#42
post #16

In any future fusion power plant, a plasma with a high triple product must be maintained for long periods. I love vague terms like "long periods". Long compared to the Planck length? Geological time? Is the advertised 43 seconds almost there or "off by 17 orders of magnitude?"

I believe it's "for as long as the reactor is to be operating", and they contrast that with the previous longest times being less than 45 seconds.

I thought the expectation was that actually-operating fusion plants would operate in pulses rather than continuously, but I could be misremembering.

Re: New records on Wendelstein 7-X

#43
post #26

This article has zero quantifiable information in it aside from the duration... which has no context. Who's recordkeeping this stuff? What are the other results so far? What is the tipping point where it is net positive? how long does it need to sustain a net positive fusion reaction to produce sufficient power for grid consumption? Are there other losses (thermal generation inefficiencies) that make the target even…

Here is an actual article with some context - and a reality check that other experimental reactors in the past have sustained similar triple product for longer durations... https://www.ipp.mpg.de/5532945/w7x

Re: New records on Wendelstein 7-X

#44

Looking at the picture, I wonder if complexity of these devices will significantly be reduced once it finally works. I assume a lot of the bells and whistles are needed to find the way, but once it's found..

That's how it goes most of the time. First you have to make it work somehow, often in a very complex way. Once you have something that works, either you can strip away a lot or the components get commoditized and you can buy them in a nice package. A lot of our devices are super complex but you can build a device without much knowledge because the complexity is hidden away in nicely packaged components.

Re: New records on Wendelstein 7-X

#45
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your question reminds me of the image showing how SpaceX raptor motors evolved https://imgur.com/a/4w3q3lS

I'm not keen on the idea of applying a 'keep subtracting things until it blows up' mentality to fusion reactors.

You should be keen on that idea. Simpler designs are usually more reliable. And a fusion reactor doesn't really blow up. It's hard enough to make it do something.

Re: New records on Wendelstein 7-X

#46
post #5

Does it kill the idea of a tokamak as an energy production device? As in a stellarator proving the much more promising design...

Tokamaks are conceptually elegant but contain significant inefficiencies which negatively impact potential net power output. Both tokamaks and optimized stellarators have magnetic fields possessing omnigeneity [1], but tokamaks require two magnetic fields (poloidal and toroidal) whereas stellarators employ one.

The bigger question is if magnetic confinement fusion will lead to the best energy producing devices. Competitors include inertial confinement, pinches, or some other exotic method. If a magnetic confinement fusion device produces net power, it's going to be a stellarator.

Sources:

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnigeneity

Re: New records on Wendelstein 7-X

#47
post #5

Does it kill the idea of a tokamak as an energy production device? As in a stellarator proving the much more promising design...

Maybe, maybe not. There are dozens of unsolved problems to get to commercial fusion. For a lot of the problems, to solve them it doesn't matter if it's a stellarator or tokamak.

I would also be super careful about celebrating new designs as the way forward that will replace everything. When you look at the history of combustion engines we had a ton of new approaches (for example rotary engines) but after looking at all factors it turned that evolutionary changes to existing designs was the way forward.

Re: New records on Wendelstein 7-X

#49
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe it's "for as long as the reactor is to be operating", and they contrast that with the previous longest times being less than 45 seconds.

I thought the expectation was that actually-operating fusion plants would operate in pulses rather than continuously, but I could be misremembering.

Toroidal reactors have to operate in pulses. Stellarators can be operated in steady-state (although sometimes they are pulsed to achieve higher energy).

Re: New records on Wendelstein 7-X

#50
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your question reminds me of the image showing how SpaceX raptor motors evolved https://imgur.com/a/4w3q3lS

I'm not keen on the idea of applying a 'keep subtracting things until it blows up' mentality to fusion reactors.

Fusion is incredibly safe with none of the risks of runaway reactions like in fission.
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