> That's equal to 82% of our graduating class who are guaranteed jobs ...
Guaranteed jobs? Sir, this is not France ;)
Data on How America Sold Out Its Computer Science Graduates
41–50 of 96 posts
Re: Data on How America Sold Out Its Computer Science Graduates
#42"How the American engineering degree, sold as a solid ticket to the American dream, has become less solid for recent graduates trying to find that first job." As opposed to what? All the other recent graduates with non-engineering degrees who are drowning in job offers? It's tough out here for everyone. This kind of hyperbole doesn't help. "How the American engineering degree, sold as a solid ticket to the American d…
> It wasn't "sold" as though there were some cigarette smoking ad men behind it.
There was a whole “Learn to Code” pitch from politicians saying that literally anyone could have a good job if only they learned to code.
Re: Data on How America Sold Out Its Computer Science Graduates
#43>The percentage of computer science graduates ... For those who specialized in computer programming, Isn't computer programing all of computer science. This seems like a weird distinction to make? The job market just seems to suck, if it didnt i dont think things like this would come up. I dont think immigration is the reason for the job market sucking. theres no jobs to apply to, theres no jobs to take from american…
> I dont think immigration is the reason for the job market sucking. theres no jobs to apply to, theres no jobs to take from americans in the first place
Are you sure about that?
Microsoft recently laid off 9,000 American workers while applying for 14,000 H1B visa workers [0]. They are transparently offshoring jobs from Americans to foreign workers.
[0] https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/microsoft-applied-to...
Re: Data on How America Sold Out Its Computer Science Graduates
#44"We need to stop pretending that flooding the labor market with foreign workers is somehow beneficial to American students." I do not think anyone is making that point. Clearly a gated and scarce employee pool is always in the advantage of the employee. You can agree or not, but the point is expanded availability of highly skilled labor from CS Graduates benefits the US companies hiring them, not just by removing som…
> do not think anyone is making that point.
There are a whole lot of weasels who are adding a bunch of filler words and alternate phrasing to stuff that amounts to something akin to that point or some point built around that core.
>From a geo political perspective, would you rather have these people working to build up US industry,
If it tears the nation apart what does it matter?
>Lastly, those non-US graduates pay a very hefty sum for the 'privilege' of attending school in the US.
First off, most H1B workers do not have american degrees so this blanket assertion is laughable on its face.
Second, even when they do have US degrees enriches institutions and people that at best about half the country approves of and approximately nobody not getting paid by them approves of the economic model of.
>except the lower 66th percentile of native US CS graduates.
Now reconcile this with the prevailing HN wisdom that the american middle class ought to pay a lot of taxes to benefit the lower classes as is the case in europe.
What makes one ok but not the other? This nation is in the shit is is because of you and people like you who adopt or condone policy positions based on something other than principals.
Re: Data on How America Sold Out Its Computer Science Graduates
#45yup, trying to unionize with H1B workers nearly impossible as well as a majority of them feel this will threaten their sponsorship/visa.
The wage suppression is real.
Re: Data on How America Sold Out Its Computer Science Graduates
#46"We need to stop pretending that flooding the labor market with foreign workers is somehow beneficial to American students." I do not think anyone is making that point. Clearly a gated and scarce employee pool is always in the advantage of the employee. You can agree or not, but the point is expanded availability of highly skilled labor from CS Graduates benefits the US companies hiring them, not just by removing som…
This is a false dichotomy.
There’s a third option besides unlimited H1Bs, etc and completely restricted market — which is preferencing US natives.
And this problem isn’t reserved to CS grads — but represents 2/3rds of prospective middle class US citizens experiencing a worse outcome. Which contrary to your glib dismissal, is politically unstable.
Re: Data on How America Sold Out Its Computer Science Graduates
#47A slightly different take:
The key information is halfway down the page, in the figure that shows the number of new graduates and new temporary workers each year. The number of new temporary workers has been relatively stable, while the number of new graduates has been climbing steadily.
There was a shortage of software developers in the 2010s. The industry hired more people from abroad than there were graduates from CS programs. Still, CS graduates had better job prospects than their peers in other fields. The market responded to the shortage by increasing the supply of CS graduates, and that increase in domestic supply kept entry-level wages from rising faster than inflation.
The job market changed in the 2020s. A country with a more reactive immigration policy would have noticed the worsening job prospects of new graduates and routinely lowered the supply of new immigrant workers in that field. The US could not do that, as American legislators apparently don't believe in such central planning. The government can make employment-based immigration easier or harder overall, but it lacks convenient tools for targeted interventions in specific fields.
People who chose CS when the job market was hot are now graduating in record numbers. You could say in retrospect that the market overreacted and allocated too much resources to software. And it's quite likely that the market will now overreact in the other direction, as it did after the dot-com bust. Immigration policy can help smoothen these market overreactions, as you can get immigrant workers much faster than new graduates. But that requires dedicated effort from the government.
Re: Data on How America Sold Out Its Computer Science Graduates
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think that nuance is fairly unwarranted when you observe the American system through the lens the laws ask you to view it through. The American H1B system isn't about importing foreign workers that do a good job, it's about importing foreign workers that do a job no American could do. The system demands you look for some American do do the job first, and only if you fail to find one can you import one from overseas…
Bwaha. I have never met an H1B in tech that was doing a job that an American could not do. The ‘mandatory interviews for Americans’ are just transparent scams.
That's because the system was sold with a lie or has otherwise been co-opted with revisions over the years.
It was supposed to be for hiring wernher von braun type world leading experts in their field.
It was never supposed to be for hiring a bunch of code plumbers, which is what 99.9% of this industry consists of.
Re: Data on How America Sold Out Its Computer Science Graduates
#49>The percentage of computer science graduates ... For those who specialized in computer programming, Isn't computer programing all of computer science. This seems like a weird distinction to make? The job market just seems to suck, if it didnt i dont think things like this would come up. I dont think immigration is the reason for the job market sucking. theres no jobs to apply to, theres no jobs to take from american…
Universities provide various specializations for the computer related programs: actual computer Science (math and algorithms with focus on research), computer networks and other IT infrastructure stuff, computer hardware, software engineering (the process of designing, architecting and managing the lifecycle of large scale software projects) for those that approach software like engineering project, and of course there is actual programming.
Re: Data on How America Sold Out Its Computer Science Graduates
#50“eliminate the STEM OPT extension” I won’t get into h1b which gets plenty of air time, but this is the first time I’ve ever heard anyone wanting to eliminate OPT. This is beyond idiotic. Foreigners come and get educated in the US; if we didn’t have OPT they’d have to go back to their home country and contribute there. Instead with OPT we give them a chance to integrate into American companies, making the US more comp…
The STEM OPT _extension_ is an additional year on top of the one year that all graduates get. I believe the article is arguing for getting rid of that extension, not all OPT.