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Molecule produced by gut bacteria causes atherosclerosis

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Re: Molecule produced by gut bacteria causes atherosclerosis

#41

Post by nextos »

elcritch wrote: post #26
nextos wrote: post #9

The same metabolite, imidazole propionate (ImP), was already found to be associated with diabetes and heart failure. See for example this study in Nature Communications (2020): https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-19589-w . I think the value of the current study in Nature is that "ImP administration to atherosclerosis-prone mice fed with chow diet was sufficient to induce atherosclerosis without altering the li…

Anyone know if there’s lab tests for ImP already? Is it a common or well known enough target?

These are typically measured using liquid chromatography coupled to tandem mass spectrometry. That also gives the opportunity to measure thousands of other metabolites, and thus get a broader picture of health. Unfortunately, commercial B2C metabolomics is not there yet. It's mostly used in population genomics research.

Re: Molecule produced by gut bacteria causes atherosclerosis

#42

Post by [deleted] »

FollowingTheDao wrote: post #38
BruceEel wrote: post #7

"The new study shows that blood levels of imidazole propionate are lower in people with diets rich in vegetables, fruits, whole grains, fish, tea, and low-fat dairy products." That's encouraging

Not really because this might raise the chances of certain cancer in certain people. Microbially produced imidazole propionate impairs prostate cancer progression through PDZK1 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39819421/ You really need to know your genetics to be certain, and make sure you have enough B6. Meat is very high in histidine so that is why this meat, without enough B6, will raise the risk of heart disease a…

[deleted]

Re: Molecule produced by gut bacteria causes atherosclerosis

#43

Post by bell-cot »

Diti wrote: post #30
TuringTourist wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is your definition of processed food? Are potatoes processed because they are cleaned? Is chicken breast processed because the chicken is plucked? Is vinegar processed because it has undergone a chemical transformation via fermentation? Are potato chips processed because they are sliced potatoes fried in oil? Are fried plantains processed because they are sliced plantains fried in oil? I do not mean to come acro…

My personal definition is that if you can stack the food you buy, it has been processed. It’s a subjective definition, and there might be dozens of counterexamples, but it feels true to me.

So Pringles are, but regular potato chips aren't.

Re: Molecule produced by gut bacteria causes atherosclerosis

#45

Post by pretzellogician »

FollowingTheDao wrote: post #39
pretzellogician wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, totally agree with your points. >What would it even mean for lifestyle choices to directly cause some condition? The glib answer would be something like woodworking and missing fingers :-) But there are plenty of people (not me!) who believe, for example, that obesity and type-2 diabetes are directly caused by overeating and/or lack of exercise.

I follow the same logic you do, even though I disagree with what you are saying. Lifestyle choices increase the risk of these diseases but if they caused the disease, everyone who ate the diet would get the disease, and we know that is not true. The difference is crucial because we know genetics plays a role as well so matching diet and genetics would be useful.

Perhaps I'm mis-stating something then, because I agree with you. (Just clarified my post in case that was the issue.)

Re: Molecule produced by gut bacteria causes atherosclerosis

#47

Post by foolswisdom »

FollowingTheDao wrote: post #38
BruceEel wrote: post #7

"The new study shows that blood levels of imidazole propionate are lower in people with diets rich in vegetables, fruits, whole grains, fish, tea, and low-fat dairy products." That's encouraging

Not really because this might raise the chances of certain cancer in certain people. Microbially produced imidazole propionate impairs prostate cancer progression through PDZK1 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39819421/ You really need to know your genetics to be certain, and make sure you have enough B6. Meat is very high in histidine so that is why this meat, without enough B6, will raise the risk of heart disease a…

Well, meat wasn't mentioned, unless fish counts.

Re: Molecule produced by gut bacteria causes atherosclerosis

#48

Post by tolerance »

BruceEel wrote: post #7

"The new study shows that blood levels of imidazole propionate are lower in people with diets rich in vegetables, fruits, whole grains, fish, tea, and low-fat dairy products." That's encouraging

I'll do you one better

       "When Fuster presented the project in 2010, he noted how difficult 
       it is to diagnose cardiovascular problems early and how simple 
       it is to prevent them, with measures such as exercising, 
       following a healthy diet, and not smoking."

Re: Molecule produced by gut bacteria causes atherosclerosis

#49

Post by porridgeraisin »

TuringTourist wrote: post #22
Aurornis wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Massively. Changing diet is about the only realistic way to elicit long-term changes in the microbiome. Even taking probiotics doesn't last very long. There's a lot of questionable microbiome science that hasn't been replicated. You can find a lot of studies that say something changes the microbiome, but it's almost always a single short-term observational study on a small group of people. Realistically, increasing v…

What is your definition of processed food? Are potatoes processed because they are cleaned? Is chicken breast processed because the chicken is plucked? Is vinegar processed because it has undergone a chemical transformation via fermentation? Are potato chips processed because they are sliced potatoes fried in oil? Are fried plantains processed because they are sliced plantains fried in oil? I do not mean to come acro…

I think an easy 80% solution is to have rarely stuff that will be called processed no matter how you draw the line e.g doritos

Re: Molecule produced by gut bacteria causes atherosclerosis

#50

Post by drjasonharrison »

tolerance wrote: post #48
BruceEel wrote: post #7

"The new study shows that blood levels of imidazole propionate are lower in people with diets rich in vegetables, fruits, whole grains, fish, tea, and low-fat dairy products." That's encouraging

I'll do you one better "When Fuster presented the project in 2010, he noted how difficult it is to diagnose cardiovascular problems early and how simple it is to prevent them, with measures such as exercising, following a healthy diet, and not smoking."

LOL. It's easy to recommend, or even prescribe, exercise, eating more fruits and vegetables, and smoking cessation. It is much harder to get people to change their habits and lifestyles.
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