Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Six Years of Gemini

geminiprotocol.net

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 169 posts

Re: Six Years of Gemini

#41

Post by blueflow »

uamgeoalsk wrote: post #32
rcarmo wrote: post #26

I wrote a server for it a while back (am still running it someplace behind a CF tunnel) but I’ve never really found either the community or the protocol were taking off: https://github.com/rcarmo/aiogemini A key issue with the ecosystem (not the protocol) as far as I’m concerned is that it would have been stupendously better to settle on Markdown (even a simplified form) for content creation. The rest is OK, I guess,…

Being able to parse gemtext line by line with almost no context is a big win for simplicity - you can't really do that with markdown.

It is possible if you restrict yourself to an subset of markdown. It works pretty well, actually, i have two awk scripts that take in a subset of markdown and generate either HTML or LaTeX.

Re: Six Years of Gemini

#42

Post by spc476 »

snvzz wrote: post #35

This is just somebody's "finished" pet protocol (author did not allow anybody to give input). Narcissism we should not enable. I will stick to gopher, as it is mature and much friendlier to low spec / retro machines.

The author very much did allow others to give input. The original protocol had single digit status codes, I was arguing for three digit codes, he compromised with two digit codes. It was my idea to include the full URL for requests, and for redirections. It's just that it wasn't easy, but he could be reasoned with. The only two hard lines Solderpunk had for the protocol was TLS, and single level lists (why, I don't know).

Re: Six Years of Gemini

#43

Post by uamgeoalsk »

blueflow wrote: post #41
uamgeoalsk wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being able to parse gemtext line by line with almost no context is a big win for simplicity - you can't really do that with markdown.

It is possible if you restrict yourself to an subset of markdown. It works pretty well, actually, i have two awk scripts that take in a subset of markdown and generate either HTML or LaTeX.

Sure, that's fair! In any case, I personally prefer the aesthetics and the readability of gemtext to markdown (especially when it comes to links!)

Re: Six Years of Gemini

#44

Post by Wild_Dolphins »

Gemini is a beautiful idea.

However, it works on the basis of mandatory-prohibition. The prohibition is: "You cannot track and exploit your site visitors". This philosophy is enforced 'remotely', by the creators of the Gemini protocol.

An identical end-result can be achieved in HTML, by choosing not to use hostile markup. However, with HTML the prohibition must be enforced 'locally', by the ethical-philosophical position of the website-designer.

The problem with the Gemini-protocol is that it introduces an attack vector: The Gemini 'browsers' themselves. The most popular one is not audited; has a huge code-base; and has relatively few eyes-on-it.

I'm not saying that Gemini protocol is a honey-trap for those trying to exit the surveillance-internet; but if I was a tech-giant / agency profiting from the surveillance-internet, I would definitely write browsers for the Gemini protocol and backdoor them.

As a former "Don't be evil" company, it would be of great interest to me who was trying to exit my 'web'; how; and why :)

Food for thought...

Re: Six Years of Gemini

#45

Post by prmoustache »

sneak wrote: post #16
fishgoesblub wrote: post #11

It was sad seeing the hate for it on here when it was new-ish, and while I haven't used it in a while, I'm glad to see it still kicking around. Such a neat and fun project.

I don’t hate it, but I question the use. You can use HTTP to do what it does, but better. The modern web is opt-in. I build and use sites that aren’t SPAs and shitted up with 3p resources and images and code. HTTP is great, and deserves our time and attention. I get that they seem upset with the modern web, and I am too - but it isn’t HTTP’s fault. It’s the sites you visit. If you want to build new and smaller commun…

HTTP is great but with AI crawling being all over the place maybe it is not a bad idea to publish in a safe / niche place if one is not obsessed on how much people will be reached.

I am saying this but I have no idea if AI crawlers have started to crawl gem capsules.

Re: Six Years of Gemini

#46

Post by shakna »

rglullis wrote: post #31
bayindirh wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With all respect, this viewpoint rivals the infamous Dropbox comment.

Problem: you are looking for a way to get rid of the annoying issues of the modern www. What is the solution that solves this with the least amount of work? A) Develop a whole new transport protocol that does less than HTTP, develop client applications that use this protocol, convince a sufficient number of people to use this protocol, at least to the point where the majority of your activity happens there? or B) Ins…

Considering "B" is becoming less possible, thanks to Google dropping Manifest 2, and going out of their way to enforce a lot more tracking, "A" looks like a lot less effort - you don't have to fight FAANG.

Re: Six Years of Gemini

#47

Post by jay_kyburz »

treve wrote: post #19
sneak wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t hate it, but I question the use. You can use HTTP to do what it does, but better. The modern web is opt-in. I build and use sites that aren’t SPAs and shitted up with 3p resources and images and code. HTTP is great, and deserves our time and attention. I get that they seem upset with the modern web, and I am too - but it isn’t HTTP’s fault. It’s the sites you visit. If you want to build new and smaller commun…

The limits of the medium and the creativity this enforces is why people like it. It caters a niche audience with a shared set of values. I get why people don't really care for it personally or on a technical level (myself included), but it always surprises me that it's hard for people to understand that others do.

I agree the limitations are what makes the platform great, but I really wish they had included a simple image block in the spec.

Text only is just a little to limiting if you ask me.

Re: Six Years of Gemini

#48

Post by bayindirh »

rglullis wrote: post #31
bayindirh wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With all respect, this viewpoint rivals the infamous Dropbox comment.

Problem: you are looking for a way to get rid of the annoying issues of the modern www. What is the solution that solves this with the least amount of work? A) Develop a whole new transport protocol that does less than HTTP, develop client applications that use this protocol, convince a sufficient number of people to use this protocol, at least to the point where the majority of your activity happens there? or B) Ins…

Option “B” implies a cat and mouse game, which you can never win.

You can’t win a game designed and implemented by a mega corporation which is specially made to earn them money and protect their monopoly by being reactive and defending all the time. Instead you have to change the game and play with your own rules.

That’s option “A”.

Re: Six Years of Gemini

#49

Post by _Algernon_ »

rglullis wrote: post #31
bayindirh wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With all respect, this viewpoint rivals the infamous Dropbox comment.

Problem: you are looking for a way to get rid of the annoying issues of the modern www. What is the solution that solves this with the least amount of work? A) Develop a whole new transport protocol that does less than HTTP, develop client applications that use this protocol, convince a sufficient number of people to use this protocol, at least to the point where the majority of your activity happens there? or B) Ins…

The benefit with A is that it also removes higher order effects of the modern web. You may for example remove adverts by installing an ad blocker, but that wont change the incentives that advertising creates (eg. clickbait, engagement maximizing, etc.). With A you can guarantee that the content is not shaped by these incentives.

Re: Six Years of Gemini

#50

Post by zozbot234 »

Gemini the protocol is still a bit mysterious to me. Why not use plain HTTPS and just serve a new text/x.gemini MIME type? Or even serve plain old text/html and enforce no-JS-or-CSS in the Gemini client.
Post reply on HN