A.I. Is Making Sure You Pay for That Ding on Your Rental Car • Hacker News Board

Re: A.I. Is Making Sure You Pay for That Ding on Your Rental Car

#41

Post by c0nducktr » Sun, Jul 13, 2025, 4:14 AM UTC

remram wrote: post #31

How does that hold up? If I return the car, the attendant inspects it, and I go home... then later I receive a bill about a scratch that the attendant didn't point out and that I cannot possibly inspect on the car... why would I possibly pay up? How could anyone litigate if I disagree and the car has been rented again? It would make a lot more sense to scan the car immediately when I return it, point out the damage,…

Don't worry, they'll probably make signing up for binding arbitration part of the rental agreement, conveniently having the arbitration decided by someone who sides with the company 99% of the time. It's all good though. They're certainly not scamming you.

Re: A.I. Is Making Sure You Pay for That Ding on Your Rental Car

#42

Post by tekla » Sun, Jul 13, 2025, 4:14 AM UTC

woodruffw wrote: post #29

legitster wrote: post #13

This is being framed all dystopian, but I'm not so pessimistic. The current process is ridiculous - a random teenager in a vest with 15 minutes of training inspects the car when you check it out, and then you get a former drill sergeant when you check it back in. The current process is no less fair and Hertz is no less evil - but in this case its at least impartial and the scans are transparently available.

> The current process is no less fair and Hertz is no less evil - but in this case its at least impartial and the scans are transparently available. I don't think it's impartial: the implication here is that the same technology is not available to the renter, so Hertz can easily claim damage that was already present at checkout that an ordinary customer picture can't refute. That asymmetry seems bad to me.

That's weird, because when I rent a car, I take photos and videos and I make sure to have a attendant write down the damage on the rental paper before I drive away.

Is basic ass covering weird?

Re: A.I. Is Making Sure You Pay for That Ding on Your Rental Car

#43

Post by analog31 » Sun, Jul 13, 2025, 4:18 AM UTC

legitster wrote: post #13

This is being framed all dystopian, but I'm not so pessimistic. The current process is ridiculous - a random teenager in a vest with 15 minutes of training inspects the car when you check it out, and then you get a former drill sergeant when you check it back in. The current process is no less fair and Hertz is no less evil - but in this case its at least impartial and the scans are transparently available.

I've never had that happen. In most cases, the rental company "eats" the cost of normal wear and tear. This is what causes a car to depreciate after all.

Is the rental company actually getting the repairs done? If not, then they're double dipping: Depreciating the car, and charging the customer.

And I know they're not getting the repairs done, because when I rent a car, they show me a list of the dings that it's already sustained.

Re: A.I. Is Making Sure You Pay for That Ding on Your Rental Car

#44

Post by pbbbt » Sun, Jul 13, 2025, 4:20 AM UTC

josephg wrote: post #36

legitster wrote: post #13

This is being framed all dystopian, but I'm not so pessimistic. The current process is ridiculous - a random teenager in a vest with 15 minutes of training inspects the car when you check it out, and then you get a former drill sergeant when you check it back in. The current process is no less fair and Hertz is no less evil - but in this case its at least impartial and the scans are transparently available.

> in this case its at least impartial and the scans are transparently available. Whenever I rent a car, after getting the keys I walk around the car and take photos of it on my phone from every angle. If I notice any scratches or dents, I tell them. But I still keep the photos, just in case. Then I do the same when I return it. That way if - at any point - they say I damaged the car, I have timestamped photos. It fee…

I do the same, but it didn't help me - Hertz charged me for several hundred dollars while I was flying back home, the same day after dropping off the car.

Turns out, you can send them all the pictures you like - all they did was send me a work order for scratches + repaint in a poorly specified location, with no comment on the pictures. No amount of emails or phone calls asking them to indicate where on the car was supposedly scratched led to anything - I just got passed around and around...

If my credit card insurance didn't cover it (Chase reimbursed me in full relatively easily), I would have taken the next step and did a chargeback. Maybe it would have been helpful if I needed to press the issue. But the presence of some tens of pictures between me and my wife didn't seem to accomplish much

Re: A.I. Is Making Sure You Pay for That Ding on Your Rental Car

#45

Post by anonym29 » Sun, Jul 13, 2025, 4:20 AM UTC

c0nducktr wrote: post #41

remram wrote: post #31

How does that hold up? If I return the car, the attendant inspects it, and I go home... then later I receive a bill about a scratch that the attendant didn't point out and that I cannot possibly inspect on the car... why would I possibly pay up? How could anyone litigate if I disagree and the car has been rented again? It would make a lot more sense to scan the car immediately when I return it, point out the damage,…

Don't worry, they'll probably make signing up for binding arbitration part of the rental agreement, conveniently having the arbitration decided by someone who sides with the company 99% of the time. It's all good though. They're certainly not scamming you.

What's weird is not that companies would want to try to be greedy, but how society has socially normalized not even reading important, binding legal contracts with real consequences, and just signing them without much, if any, serious consideration of the ramifications of what we're agreeing to.

Re: A.I. Is Making Sure You Pay for That Ding on Your Rental Car

#46

Post by woodruffw » Sun, Jul 13, 2025, 4:22 AM UTC

tekla wrote: post #42

woodruffw wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The current process is no less fair and Hertz is no less evil - but in this case its at least impartial and the scans are transparently available. I don't think it's impartial: the implication here is that the same technology is not available to the renter, so Hertz can easily claim damage that was already present at checkout that an ordinary customer picture can't refute. That asymmetry seems bad to me.

That's weird, because when I rent a car, I take photos and videos and I make sure to have a attendant write down the damage on the rental paper before I drive away. Is basic ass covering weird?

> Is basic ass covering weird?

The point was that basic ass covering isn't good enough; my visual scan and phone photos aren't going to match what a machine designed to find defects can do.

(I think everyone does - or at least should do - what you do. I certainly do.)

Re: A.I. Is Making Sure You Pay for That Ding on Your Rental Car

#47

Post by tcoff91 » Sun, Jul 13, 2025, 4:28 AM UTC

pbbbt wrote: post #44

josephg wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in this case its at least impartial and the scans are transparently available. Whenever I rent a car, after getting the keys I walk around the car and take photos of it on my phone from every angle. If I notice any scratches or dents, I tell them. But I still keep the photos, just in case. Then I do the same when I return it. That way if - at any point - they say I damaged the car, I have timestamped photos. It fee…

I do the same, but it didn't help me - Hertz charged me for several hundred dollars while I was flying back home, the same day after dropping off the car. Turns out, you can send them all the pictures you like - all they did was send me a work order for scratches + repaint in a poorly specified location, with no comment on the pictures. No amount of emails or phone calls asking them to indicate where on the car was s…

Your mistake was renting with Hertz. This is the same company that literally got their customers arrested for grand theft auto due to negligently reporting cars stolen that had in fact not been stolen.

Re: A.I. Is Making Sure You Pay for That Ding on Your Rental Car

#48

Post by tekla » Sun, Jul 13, 2025, 4:29 AM UTC

woodruffw wrote: post #46

tekla wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's weird, because when I rent a car, I take photos and videos and I make sure to have a attendant write down the damage on the rental paper before I drive away. Is basic ass covering weird?

> Is basic ass covering weird? The point was that basic ass covering isn't good enough; my visual scan and phone photos aren't going to match what a machine designed to find defects can do. (I think everyone does - or at least should do - what you do. I certainly do.)

I would need examples of the defects that this machine would find that a) would matter enough to bother with and b) not be something a human could bring up arbitrarily too if they happened to not like me.

Re: A.I. Is Making Sure You Pay for That Ding on Your Rental Car

#49

Post by nitwit005 » Sun, Jul 13, 2025, 4:30 AM UTC

> An employee reviews the report only if a customer flags an issue after receiving the bill. She added that fewer than 3 percent of vehicles scanned by the A.I. system show any billable damage.

> They were charged $195: $80 for the damage and $115 in fees, including those incurred “as a result of processing” the damage claim and the “cost to detect and estimate the damage” that occurred during the rental. Hertz offered to reduce the charge to $130 if they paid within one day.

Yea, that's just a scam. Charging fees for charging fees.

Re: A.I. Is Making Sure You Pay for That Ding on Your Rental Car

#50

Post by citizenpaul » Sun, Jul 13, 2025, 4:31 AM UTC

kjellsbells wrote: post #12

Classic MBA scam. Hertz dont own the cars outright, they borrow money to pay for them. So they have an interest in driving down the value of the cars so they can refinance at lower costs. Then, on the income side, they'll be gouging customers for fees to cover damage (or take out curiously expensive damage insurance). It's a continual shakedown and I imagine there were high fives all around when the Finance intern ca…

You have part of it but miss the whole picture. Hertz doesn't want to do business with "poor's." Its part of the bigger continuing stratification of classes. Unless you represent a company account with over $500 million in market cap (or gob) in which case you can negotiate actual Fair terms with them. Or a rich enough to pay enough that the rental costs equal to or greater than paying for the car's monthly cost outright. They simply don't want to do business with you. And they will get what they want because this country is ruled by corporations.

Providing a good or service with a profit margin is so old fashioned what is this 1920? Nowadays you use your big MBA brain to do a business with another big brain MBA that also has rich parents that your parents are friends with. Then both ride away from the smoldering rubble of the company on their yachts when their options vest in 3-5 years.

Because if you are a big brain MBA you know that is about how long it takes for your yacht to be constructed