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When Figma starts designing us

designsystems.international

41–50 of 145 posts

Re: When Figma starts designing us

#41
post #26
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't play to the strengths of designers to have them think in terms of Flex layouts and it doesn't play to the strengths of developers to have them translate a design 100% specified to the layout-algorithm and hierarchy of components into code. Yet this is the workflow Figma encourages. What the author encourages is that the designers work more free-flowing with sketches and wireframes and that the developers t…

Figma actually now has grids: https://help.figma.com/hc/en-us/articles/31289469907863-Use-...

those are layout grids and not grid layout (huge difference!)

Re: When Figma starts designing us

#42
post #14

I deeply, deeply despise the Figma-style design language that everything uses now, where there's barely any indication of what's clickable vs. what isn't and every screen is an endlessly-scrolling set of tiles and pills. No borders, no button depth, no hyperlinks, huge swaths of blank monochrome space, menus distributed randomly, and my least favorite software design element of all time--scroll bars that aren't visib…

That has nothing to do with Figma. That's all due to Jony-Ive-Deiter-Rams cargo-cult design thinking. I think liquid glass will remedy that specific issue (while introducing all new ones...)

Re: When Figma starts designing us

#43
post #41
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Figma actually now has grids: https://help.figma.com/hc/en-us/articles/31289469907863-Use-...

those are layout grids and not grid layout (huge difference!)

You're right, I used a wrong link, fixed now. So Figma has both.

Re: When Figma starts designing us

#44

No, here’s the problem: Figma doesn’t go far enough. If you need a free form design tool to sketch, use one. There are hundreds of them. I need to implement my design system inside of a design tool so I can prototype designs with multiple breakpoints, container queries, modes, and variants. Figma isn’t up to the job. Ever tried opening the variables tab on the Material 3 Figma file? Stutter, stutter, stutter, “this t…

[dead]

Re: When Figma starts designing us

#45

I'm seeing lots of opinions from people in different roles who wish Figma would serve them , but I agree with the author. Assuming Figma is meant to serve the design process, it tries to stretch far into implementation territory, but does it at the expense of the exploratory phase. Everything Figma adds either screams MAKE IT READY FOR DEV or GET ALL YOUR MANAGERS A FIGMA SEAT™. Those are not concerns for the early e…

Unless you're building content-marketing or similar- you don't need a lot of the exploratory phase to be done freeform.

Trying to implement designs in a product where every single new design stretches or modifies the design system is mind bogglingly annoying as a developer, especially if you've got a small team trying to crank out new features. We don't need a tenth variation of a call to action, we don't need to use a new, tenth shade of blue or green for just this one place, we don't need a twentieth exception to the existing padding rules. If it is one size on desktop and another in mobile everywhere else, then those are how the sizes should change in this new feature too.

Once you've got a design language in place, leave it alone unless the change to the semantics is meaningful and consistent.

Having done the slice and dice of Photoshop files in years gone past, I'm very glad we have better tools for collaboration now.

Re: When Figma starts designing us

#46

No, here’s the problem: Figma doesn’t go far enough. If you need a free form design tool to sketch, use one. There are hundreds of them. I need to implement my design system inside of a design tool so I can prototype designs with multiple breakpoints, container queries, modes, and variants. Figma isn’t up to the job. Ever tried opening the variables tab on the Material 3 Figma file? Stutter, stutter, stutter, “this t…

> If you need a free form design tool to sketch, use one. There are hundreds of them.

Before Figma, the norm of design tool was Photoshop, not the other "hundreds of them."

So go back in time, if you had been Figma founder developing a tool that appeals to most designers, it should've looked more like Photoshop than like CSS/HTML.

Re: When Figma starts designing us

#47

No, here’s the problem: Figma doesn’t go far enough. If you need a free form design tool to sketch, use one. There are hundreds of them. I need to implement my design system inside of a design tool so I can prototype designs with multiple breakpoints, container queries, modes, and variants. Figma isn’t up to the job. Ever tried opening the variables tab on the Material 3 Figma file? Stutter, stutter, stutter, “this t…

As a dev that does a lot of his own design, I’ve never really understood the need to build a full fidelity reproduction of the layout systems a design is targeting. The limitations and considerations involved are deeply internalized and for the most part, I know exactly where designs tend to break and how to account for them. The layout system is effectively running in my head the entire time I’m mocking things up.

So while it’s nice to have tools to help with menial bits like correct spacing, getting every little behavior right in the mockup feels a lot like unnecessary busywork.

Naturally things are a bit different in a team setting, because it can’t be assumed that everybody involved has this level of knowledge/experience, but well… maybe it’s not crazy to expect designers to carry this set of skills, and it’s perhaps not a good thing for parties outside of design and engineering to be able to easily poke and prod at designs directly. Having the design team as a required intermediary helps sanity check changes.

Re: When Figma starts designing us

#48

No, here’s the problem: Figma doesn’t go far enough. If you need a free form design tool to sketch, use one. There are hundreds of them. I need to implement my design system inside of a design tool so I can prototype designs with multiple breakpoints, container queries, modes, and variants. Figma isn’t up to the job. Ever tried opening the variables tab on the Material 3 Figma file? Stutter, stutter, stutter, “this t…

I have totally opposite experience working on large ds at uber

Re: When Figma starts designing us

#49

No, here’s the problem: Figma doesn’t go far enough. If you need a free form design tool to sketch, use one. There are hundreds of them. I need to implement my design system inside of a design tool so I can prototype designs with multiple breakpoints, container queries, modes, and variants. Figma isn’t up to the job. Ever tried opening the variables tab on the Material 3 Figma file? Stutter, stutter, stutter, “this t…

> If you need a free form design tool to sketch, use one. There are hundreds of them. Before Figma, the norm of design tool was Photoshop, not the other "hundreds of them." So go back in time, if you had been Figma founder developing a tool that appeals to most designers, it should've looked more like Photoshop than like CSS/HTML.

Fireworks also existed the whole time which had a lot of Figma's features but bizarrely was completely ignored by 95% of designers.

Re: When Figma starts designing us

#50
PM on Design Systems here at Figma.

There's an element of truth to this post, but I think the author's conclusions are incorrect.

First is the truth - we are working on things that allow designs to be closer to code (allow here is the key word, not enforce). We've always seen Figma as being at the center between Freeform and Structured design - I talked about it in depth during our keynote at Schema 3 years ago: https://youtu.be/Yo7rL0pvHTk?t=147

Our goal is to enable both, not push designers towards one or the other. The author notes:

> You can’t drag things around freely or try odd combinations of layouts. You can’t simply paste something into a frame without it snapping to the bottom of the stack.

What the author is seeing isn't Figma restricting your ability to design, it's other designers adopting it as part of their process. I'd encourage the author to dive into the why of that. What we've found is that often times these structured design approaches can accelerate even freeform design - rarely do you want a menu that doesn't have equal gaps between similar items, so quickly adding that logic can let you move faster. More importantly though, quickly moving past those repetitive parts of the design can let you more quickly focus on the more creative parts.

All that said, these structured approaches can be overbaked, which is what the author might be seeing. Knowing when not to use features such as autolayout can be just as important as knowing how to use them. The most important thing though is you can always detach from them. One of the top requests we've had from Design Systems authors for a while now is to prevent detaches, but it something we've never implemented, mainly because we always want a way to allow the designer to fully go back to that freeform design mentality. You can always remove an autolayout, you can always detach an instance, you can always break a variable. They're optional features, not handcuffs that bind you. If you want to go a step further, there are plenty of plugins out there that fully detach all restrictive elements on a selection, making all colors a hex code, all autolayouts removed, and everything absolutely positioned so you can just drag things around. We don't provide a native feature to do this (since it's a fairly extreme measure that removes a lot of helpful metadata), but we also don't prevent actions like this if people really want to go to the creative extremes.

Happy to answer any questions about any of this though - this is my bread and butter.

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