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Are we the baddies?

geohot.github.io

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Re: Are we the baddies?

#41

Post by jagrsw »

anonzzzies wrote: post #7
ggm wrote: post #2

For some people, paying the premium to jump the queue is the point. What they didn't forsee is what happens when everyone has wound up paying the premium, and the queue is now with you again. This is mostly Australian frequent flyers, when it was a high barrier to entry it conferred advantages and now Fly in Fly out work has commoditised club status, there is next to no boarding advantage, and no points flight availa…

> there is next to no boarding advantage Especially on the discounters here in EU (especially Ryanair / Easyjet), i'm the only one in the non-priority queue, everyone else is in the priority queue. This used to of course not be the case; you paid extra and was in first. Now i'm usually in before 2/3th of the prio queue. Which is just weird. > about surge pricing. I got boiled slowly. Not sure how it is in the US (I u…

> but here prices jump heavily during surge

Yup. The price jump isn't just a "surge." It's the algorithm calculating the highest price you'll tolerate without abandoning the app long-term, no matter availability of cars (which can be related, but from CFOs perspective that's not the metric to optimize)

This personalized price discrimination is precisely the kind of manipulation geohot is describing.

It's the same principle as (an old story) booking.com charging Mac/Safari/iphone users more.

Re: Are we the baddies?

#42

Post by cantor_S_drug »

svnt wrote: post #3

I find these posts primarily interesting as a sort of demographic heatmap. Like now it has gotten to the point where instead of only chasing their interest of choice (geohot hacking, in this case), this person has become aware of the issue, and been sufficiently motivated to write a post about it. geohot is pretty deep into the center of the map afaict.

> Someday, people will have to realize we live in a society. What will it take?

From all the podcasts (Trevor Noah, social media in general), etc, one good aspect that I find is now society in a distributed manner can point a finger to social problems. e.g. we desperately need community in our society, by that I mean, we need a modern version of village. Not being individualistic and self-centered in all decisions. Adjusting to each others requirements and needs. Sometimes not asserting yourself on your parents even if you know they are wrong. It is hightime we nurture such an interdependent society, not unbundle ourselves totally and becoming transactional.

Re: Are we the baddies?

#43

Post by notarobot123 »

Everyone hates The Algorithm but we're all caught in network effects. Networks can collapse though.

AI is propping up the Web but I'm not convinced it can do that indefinitely.

The dream of Internet enabled disintermediation is not dead. We'll eventually switch protocols, change the incentive structures and build a social internet for ourselves - at least those of us who've not had our souls eaten by Moloch already. It's not inevitable but it is possible and it is what a lot of us actually want.

Re: Are we the baddies?

#44

Post by mcintyre1994 »

nemothekid wrote: post #30
digitalPhonix wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Boarding the plane would be much faster if everyone didn’t have the maximum sized carry-on because they’re trying to avoid paying for a checked bag.

The fact that they may make you check it anyways is annoying. I avoid checking a bag but because it’s price sensitive; its because so much of the airline experience is just idle dead time and I’d like to avoid spending an extra 45 minutes waiting around at baggage claim. Having everyone check bags is just trading waiting at one area for waiting in another area

Since they tend to do that at the check in gate and slow boarding, I think it’s more adding waiting at one area and also at another area.

Re: Are we the baddies?

#45

Post by notarobot123 »

alganet wrote: post #36
afiodorov wrote: post #13

We should not underestimate the timeless human response to being manipulated: disengagement. This isn't theoretical, it's happening right now. The boom in digital detoxes, the dumbphone revival among young people, the shift from public feeds to private DMs, and the "Do Not Disturb" generation are all symptoms of the same thing. People are feeling the manipulation and are choosing to opt out, one notification at a tim…

> disengagement. That disengagement metric is valuable, I'm not gonna give it away for free anymore. I'll engage and disengage randomly, so no one knows what works. > The boom in digital detoxes, the dumbphone revival among young people That's a market now. It doesn't mean shit. It's a "lifestyle". > People are feeling the manipulation They don't. Even manipulation awareness is a market now. I'm sure there are YouTub…

The Algorithm doesn't care if you're illegible. How ever much you mess with it, you're still its plaything.

Re: Are we the baddies?

#46

Post by protocolture »

>But eventually the market will fix this, right? People will feel sick of being manipulated and move elsewhere?

You can literally go outside and talk to people. There's no moat around dating apps. Human beings continue to exist in meatspace. I am yet to see a dating app contract that prevents you from being casually approached by strangers. Heck matchmakers still exist.

Re: Are we the baddies?

#47

Post by javitury »

anonzzzies wrote: post #7
ggm wrote: post #2

For some people, paying the premium to jump the queue is the point. What they didn't forsee is what happens when everyone has wound up paying the premium, and the queue is now with you again. This is mostly Australian frequent flyers, when it was a high barrier to entry it conferred advantages and now Fly in Fly out work has commoditised club status, there is next to no boarding advantage, and no points flight availa…

> there is next to no boarding advantage Especially on the discounters here in EU (especially Ryanair / Easyjet), i'm the only one in the non-priority queue, everyone else is in the priority queue. This used to of course not be the case; you paid extra and was in first. Now i'm usually in before 2/3th of the prio queue. Which is just weird. > about surge pricing. I got boiled slowly. Not sure how it is in the US (I u…

Regarding Uber, I agree that their price transparency is very much appreciated.

However it's not rare to find bad drivers on Uber. On Christmas this year I took an uber from the airport, the driver had supposely arrived but he was nowhere to be seen. We called each other and I could hardly hear anything. After wasting about 30 minutes (and battery almost depleted) we finally found each other. It turns out he didn't know how to speak English or the local language. He had two phones, one he used to call a colleage who could (barely) translate english for him, the other phone he used to talk to clients, and both phones were placed mic-to-speaker to bridge the calls. What about the extra time that the driver wasted? I was billed for it and I had no way to dispute it. I could only report this behavior in a review to a driver that didn't seem to be him (was the main driver subletting his account?).

Re: Are we the baddies?

#48

Post by [deleted] »

nemothekid wrote: post #34
csours wrote: post #11

Before you pay for boosts on a dating app, pay for good pictures. Here is what a man seeking woman profile needs: 1. Good Pictures. Honest. Good lighting. Appropriate grooming and attire (whatever than means in your social context). Smile in a carefree way in most of the pictures. 2. Attractive man in the pictures. 3. No icks. Yes the pictures are more important than being attractive. As a matter of storytelling, the…

I’ve come to realize that dating apps are just outright hostile to honest newcomers who don’t know the implicit rules. It starts with picking the “right” pictures, then saying the “right” things then choosing the “right” place and then confirming at the “right” time. Eventually you are just going down a checklist rather than being your authentic self. If you find yourself minmaxing in this way, take a break.

[deleted]

Re: Are we the baddies?

#49

Post by TFYS »

mindwok wrote: post #38

What the open web did for discoverability of businesses, we need to invent again for actual engagement with the businesses. Uber, Booking.com, AirBnB, ClassPass, Steam, DoorDash - these winner take all middle-men rent seeking tech behemoths are bad for society and are hostile to consumers and the businesses that rely on them. Let's decentralise this shit.

It's not the centralization that's the main problem. Centralization of those services can make sense. It's how and why those centralized services are run. They're run like dictatorships, for the purpose of making the dictator and his friends richer. They should be run democratically, for the purpose of making the lives of the users better. Breaking up monopolies is just a temporary solution, because the systems of capitalism will always create them again. The underlying system, the how and why, needs to change.

Re: Are we the baddies?

#50

Post by wiseowise »

throw393949 wrote: post #19
ggm wrote: post #2

For some people, paying the premium to jump the queue is the point. What they didn't forsee is what happens when everyone has wound up paying the premium, and the queue is now with you again. This is mostly Australian frequent flyers, when it was a high barrier to entry it conferred advantages and now Fly in Fly out work has commoditised club status, there is next to no boarding advantage, and no points flight availa…

> who think needing clean underwear is weak. Washing clothes was discovered several thousands years ago. And boarding plane is much faster. I really do not want to pay for your luggage!

> Washing clothes was discovered several thousands years ago.

So you carry high quality detergent, and clean washing machine with delicate setting, and then air dry your clothes? Nice.

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