A world can be built on this. So many things are broken privacy-wise because we have to overshare our PII. SSNs for example.
Opening up ‘Zero-Knowledge Proof’ technology
41–50 of 217 posts
Re: Opening up ‘Zero-Knowledge Proof’ technology
#42Anyone have a good explanation on the intuition of non-interactive zero-knowledge proofs? For example, I thought the "paint-mixing" analogy for Diffie-Hellman key exchange ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffie–Hellman_key_exchange#Ge... ) really helped me handwave the math into "mixing easy, unmixing hard". https://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/2014/11/27/zero-kno... was a good intro for interactive ZK proofs but…
Yeah I'm also interested in some of the details here, but the linked library repo is a bit too low-level for my current understanding. For example, in the usecase of providing a proof-of-age to a website: who provides the verification data (the government?); what form does that take (a file in a standard format?); who holds/owns the verification data (the user?); who runs the verification software (the end-user's web…
The specifics depend on local regulations, but roughy speaking: the government gives you a document in a standard format (eg MDOC). Your phone stores the document, with cooperation from a secure element that binds the document to the phone. The website you visit verifies the proof. The government gives documents to whatever wallet they want, which may be a special government wallet. They may or may not give the document to Google Wallet.
Re: Opening up ‘Zero-Knowledge Proof’ technology
#43It's a very interesting solution that allows for multi-show unlinkability to be married to hardware binding using existing ECDSA hardware keys. It's not limited to age verification; it can be applied to arbitrary attributes.
It's also an unfathomably complex solution [1] which only a few people in the world will grok, and far more complex than existing solutions such as Idemix or BBS+, which lack such a hardware binding on existing hardware.
Age verification in a privacy preserving way is a really hot topic at the moment, but it will always be possible to bypass it – as will any commonly held anonymous boolean – in quite trivial ways. For example by setting up an open proxy to disclose genuine attributes. There are some privacy preserving mitigations, for example cryptography that'll make you linkable when disclosing more than k times per time period, or detecting slower-than-near-light-speed disclosure in a face-to-face disclosure scenario.
However, these mitigations will never be completely secure. That might not be a problem if it's admitted beforehand so expectations are correctly set: it's a barrier to protect the naïve, not an impenetrable fortress. However, if the expectations are that only age verification that cannot be bypassed is "adequate", we only have to wait for the first incidents in production apps after which the open source and privacy story will be abandoned in the name of security.
[1] https://eprint.iacr.org/2024/2010.pdf and https://eprint.iacr.org/2022/1608.pdf
Re: Opening up ‘Zero-Knowledge Proof’ technology
#44Anyone have a good explanation on the intuition of non-interactive zero-knowledge proofs? For example, I thought the "paint-mixing" analogy for Diffie-Hellman key exchange ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffie–Hellman_key_exchange#Ge... ) really helped me handwave the math into "mixing easy, unmixing hard". https://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/2014/11/27/zero-kno... was a good intro for interactive ZK proofs but…
Yeah I'm also interested in some of the details here, but the linked library repo is a bit too low-level for my current understanding. For example, in the usecase of providing a proof-of-age to a website: who provides the verification data (the government?); what form does that take (a file in a standard format?); who holds/owns the verification data (the user?); who runs the verification software (the end-user's web…
(1) in this case, an identity issuer provides the source of truth identity information. Examples include state DMV, your passport (you can try "Id pass" in Google wallet), etc.
(2) One of the goals of this project was to layer ZK on top of current identity standards that DMVs already issue, so that gov orgs don't have to change what they currently do to support the strongest user privacy. One example format is called Mdoc.
(3) The user holds the identity information on their device only. No other copies. The user's device makes the zkp proof on-device. This was one of the major technical challenges.
(4) The relying party (eg a website) runs the zk verification algorithm on the proof that is produced by the device to ensure soundness.
(5) Yes, the user can use any compatible implementation to produce the proof. We have open-sourced our implementation and we have a spec for the proof format that others can also reimplement.
Re: Opening up ‘Zero-Knowledge Proof’ technology
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah I'm also interested in some of the details here, but the linked library repo is a bit too low-level for my current understanding. For example, in the usecase of providing a proof-of-age to a website: who provides the verification data (the government?); what form does that take (a file in a standard format?); who holds/owns the verification data (the user?); who runs the verification software (the end-user's web…
The specifics depend on local regulations, but roughy speaking: the government gives you a document in a standard format (eg MDOC). Your phone stores the document, with cooperation from a secure element that binds the document to the phone. The website you visit verifies the proof. The government gives documents to whatever wallet they want, which may be a special government wallet. They may or may not give the docum…
Thank you.
> Your phone stores the document, with cooperation from a secure element that binds the document to the phone. The website you visit verifies the proof.
So it does require a "blessed" implementation, and I have to trust Google or Apple to handle my data? I cannot own the document myself and use an open-source client that I trust to provide the proof?
Re: Opening up ‘Zero-Knowledge Proof’ technology
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah I'm also interested in some of the details here, but the linked library repo is a bit too low-level for my current understanding. For example, in the usecase of providing a proof-of-age to a website: who provides the verification data (the government?); what form does that take (a file in a standard format?); who holds/owns the verification data (the user?); who runs the verification software (the end-user's web…
(1) in this case, an identity issuer provides the source of truth identity information. Examples include state DMV, your passport (you can try "Id pass" in Google wallet), etc. (2) One of the goals of this project was to layer ZK on top of current identity standards that DMVs already issue, so that gov orgs don't have to change what they currently do to support the strongest user privacy. One example format is called…
Thanks for the reply. So in theory, I could get this MDOC file and store it on my desktop computer, and use an open-source library whose behavior I can verify, to provide the proof to the website via my web browser. Yeah? This sounds good to me.
Re: Opening up ‘Zero-Knowledge Proof’ technology
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
The specifics depend on local regulations, but roughy speaking: the government gives you a document in a standard format (eg MDOC). Your phone stores the document, with cooperation from a secure element that binds the document to the phone. The website you visit verifies the proof. The government gives documents to whatever wallet they want, which may be a special government wallet. They may or may not give the docum…
Thank you. > Your phone stores the document, with cooperation from a secure element that binds the document to the phone. The website you visit verifies the proof. So it does require a "blessed" implementation, and I have to trust Google or Apple to handle my data? I cannot own the document myself and use an open-source client that I trust to provide the proof?
It depends on local regulations. As far as I can tell Europe will require some sort of blessing of the wallet. To be clear, governments will develop their own apps and it's not clear that Google will be blessed. We (Google) are giving them the code pro bono to improve privacy.
Re: Opening up ‘Zero-Knowledge Proof’ technology
#48Anyone have a good explanation on the intuition of non-interactive zero-knowledge proofs? For example, I thought the "paint-mixing" analogy for Diffie-Hellman key exchange ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffie–Hellman_key_exchange#Ge... ) really helped me handwave the math into "mixing easy, unmixing hard". https://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/2014/11/27/zero-kno... was a good intro for interactive ZK proofs but…
Yeah I'm also interested in some of the details here, but the linked library repo is a bit too low-level for my current understanding. For example, in the usecase of providing a proof-of-age to a website: who provides the verification data (the government?); what form does that take (a file in a standard format?); who holds/owns the verification data (the user?); who runs the verification software (the end-user's web…
It is decentralized. The holder provides the data, which was ultimately provided to them by the government, they're the client. The verifier is the entity that wants to know how old the holder is, the server.
The form are eg things like the JSON Web Token (JWT), Digital Credentials, and the Federated Credential Management API (FedCM).[1][2][3][4][5] The software can be anything since they're expected to use open protocols, so yes, web browsers.[6] Per the Commission, "For remote presentation flows, … the Wallet Instance implements the OpenID for Verifiable Presentation protocol OpenID4VP in combination with the W3C Digital Credentials API."[7]
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JSON_Web_Token
[2] https://github.com/w3c-fedid/digital-credentials
[3] https://w3c-fedid.github.io/digital-credentials/
[4] https://github.com/w3c-fedid/FedCM
[5] https://w3c-fedid.github.io/FedCM/
[6] https://github.com/w3c-fedid/FedCM/blob/main/explorations/HO...
[7] https://eu-digital-identity-wallet.github.io/eudi-doc-archit...
Re: Opening up ‘Zero-Knowledge Proof’ technology
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah I'm also interested in some of the details here, but the linked library repo is a bit too low-level for my current understanding. For example, in the usecase of providing a proof-of-age to a website: who provides the verification data (the government?); what form does that take (a file in a standard format?); who holds/owns the verification data (the user?); who runs the verification software (the end-user's web…
(1) in this case, an identity issuer provides the source of truth identity information. Examples include state DMV, your passport (you can try "Id pass" in Google wallet), etc. (2) One of the goals of this project was to layer ZK on top of current identity standards that DMVs already issue, so that gov orgs don't have to change what they currently do to support the strongest user privacy. One example format is called…
Are you trying to say that there’s a signed blob called an MDOC, that happens to have the age and name of the user, and this library allows a website to prove that the provided age belongs to the person with the MDOC, but not also see the name?
Re: Opening up ‘Zero-Knowledge Proof’ technology
#50Age assurance will be the gateway to government issued(via corporate proxy) internet usage permits.
Not necessary, Uganda has been levying social media taxes on end-users since 2018 by automatically adding it to your cell phone bill if you access a social media website. About 2.7¢ per day of usage.[1] Virtually everyone gets their internet from an ISP that is regulated in the country that the user lives in. There are no technical barriers to implementing a permitting system in the United States. Linking connections…
Do you happen to know what the answer of this scheme to "I have a wireguard connection to another country, you can't see my traffic" is? I know that enough of the population would never bother so it wouldn't significantly harm it as a revenue scheme, but if your goal is avoiding identification rather than taxation then the stakes could be high enough to make the effort worthwhile.