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Launch HN: K-Scale Labs (YC W24) – Open-Source Humanoid Robots

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Re: Launch HN: K-Scale Labs (YC W24) – Open-Source Humanoid Robots

#41

Post by codekansas »

timhigins wrote: post #36
codekansas wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spent two years on Tesla's FSD team, and I think from a cash flow perspective for funding R&D this model did make a lot of sense - basically, it takes cash upfront for training models, but there's zero marginal cost for distributing the models once you've developed them. I think this kind of "promise the future, pay now" model does alienates some people, especially when the tech is not ready today. That's why we're…

> we're open sourcing everything Does/will this include the training data, hyperparams, and weights for the models? People will be reluctant to buy an "open source" robot if the key ML magic to make it work is closed off, e.g. if you charge a subscription for it.

Yeah of course. That's kind of the whole point - I don't think you can really trust a humanoid robot in your house around your family if it is not clear what it's running. Basically, for myself, I would not want to buy a closed sourced humanoid, and I view myself as relatively representative of the early adopter mentality. So personally I think this is the right way to build a great product.

I basically believe that in a world where humanoid robots are actually useful, we will not have any trouble monetizing. Probably we will verticalize manufacturing at some point in the future. I think the bigger risks for our business model are not from people copying us or something, but from not making progress fast enough.

Re: Launch HN: K-Scale Labs (YC W24) – Open-Source Humanoid Robots

#42

Post by codekansas »

cpgxiii wrote: post #27
chrsw wrote: post #13

I have some technical questions about feet. Human feet have metatarsophalangeal joints connecting the toes to the rest of the foot. But humanoid robots don't have these (at least, the vast majority don't). Why? These joints are very useful. Also, the bottom of the human foot is soft and has thousands of nerve endings. Can we really expect robots to get anywhere near human mobility performance without this level of co…

Feet/ankles on humanoids are really hard mechanically. In many ways the kinematic requirements for the ankle are similar to a wrist, but while the wrist of a robot arm is the least-heavily-loaded, the ankle area can be the most heavily loaded. Humans get away with it by having most of the highly-stressed actuators in the lower leg, not the ankle itself, whereas many humanoid robots end up putting more of the actuator…

This is a much better answer than mine

Re: Launch HN: K-Scale Labs (YC W24) – Open-Source Humanoid Robots

#43

Post by codekansas »

harhargange wrote: post #35

Nothing against the company but I'm waiting for the tech to get backlash. I have a feeling people are going to want to end the techno autocracy and so-calledb advancements that go on to become weapons while people continue to go back to old ways and learn old skills that prove to more useful.

Yeah I think humanoids are a pretty fraught area. There's definitely been some backlash but overall I have really appreciated the responses we've got from people. Like, I just want people to care about what we're doing - if positive that's great, if negative then we can learn how to do better. As long as people have an opinion one way or the other, I'm happy :)

Re: Launch HN: K-Scale Labs (YC W24) – Open-Source Humanoid Robots

#44

Post by dbmikus »

This is awesome! How much of your team's time goes into working on the physical hardware, versus RL simulation environments, versus managing all the training data from the real robot and the simulations?

I'm super interested in learning more about the training process of world and robotics model and the data challenges there.

Re: Launch HN: K-Scale Labs (YC W24) – Open-Source Humanoid Robots

#45

Post by v5v3 »

>However, a lot of the people who want to buy a humanoid robot today do so because they want a completely autonomous robot to do all their chores,

Not sure your research has been through.

The ones that get the most attention from what I've seen are the ones that look female. And the first comment is always about how easy to clean...

All those lonely men spending thousands on the billion dollar revenue generating onlyfans and webcam sites seem to be the immediate consumer market.

Re: Launch HN: K-Scale Labs (YC W24) – Open-Source Humanoid Robots

#47

Post by codekansas »

v5v3 wrote: post #45

>However, a lot of the people who want to buy a humanoid robot today do so because they want a completely autonomous robot to do all their chores, Not sure your research has been through. The ones that get the most attention from what I've seen are the ones that look female. And the first comment is always about how easy to clean... All those lonely men spending thousands on the billion dollar revenue generating only…

Yes, we are aware of this customer segment. I don't think they have thoroughly considered the implications of what high torque actuators can do to the human body

Re: Launch HN: K-Scale Labs (YC W24) – Open-Source Humanoid Robots

#49

Post by codekansas »

dbmikus wrote: post #44

This is awesome! How much of your team's time goes into working on the physical hardware, versus RL simulation environments, versus managing all the training data from the real robot and the simulations? I'm super interested in learning more about the training process of world and robotics model and the data challenges there.

Thanks!

We're all pretty cross-stack - there are some hardware people and some software people, but the product is quite integrated. Personally, my time has been mostly focused on the RL stack recently, and after there are more robots in the wild, I suspect my time will transition to working on building this data feedback loop.

I try to answer questions pretty actively on our Discord so happy to chat there about whatever you like

Re: Launch HN: K-Scale Labs (YC W24) – Open-Source Humanoid Robots

#50

Post by timhigins »

codekansas wrote: post #41
timhigins wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we're open sourcing everything Does/will this include the training data, hyperparams, and weights for the models? People will be reluctant to buy an "open source" robot if the key ML magic to make it work is closed off, e.g. if you charge a subscription for it.

Yeah of course. That's kind of the whole point - I don't think you can really trust a humanoid robot in your house around your family if it is not clear what it's running. Basically, for myself, I would not want to buy a closed sourced humanoid, and I view myself as relatively representative of the early adopter mentality. So personally I think this is the right way to build a great product. I basically believe that…

Great to hear, thanks for the response!
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