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Entry-level jobs down by a third since launch of ChatGPT

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Re: Entry-level jobs down by a third since launch of ChatGPT

#41

Post by mgol94 »

skirge wrote: post #10
honkycat wrote: post #8

It's not AI. We are in a recession caused by fear and instability. Tech may just be dying in general. This could finally be the collapse we have been waiting for. While the US was allowing capitalists to hoard all of the USs excess capital, China was facilitating the development of important industries via central planning. Look at Intel. The owning class has become so greedy and incompetent. They aren't even running…

stupid government is the root cause - and government is chosen by voters and does what voters want it to do. China is monarchy and monarchs listen to no one.

For US democracy replace "voters" with "lobbyists"

Re: Entry-level jobs down by a third since launch of ChatGPT

#42

Post by karn97 »

TSiege wrote: post #23
reedf1 wrote: post #9

I think it is possible that the widespread introduction of ChatGPT will cause a brief hiatus on hiring due to the inelasticity of demand. For the sake of argument , imagine that ChatGPT makes your average developer 4x more productive. It will take a while before the expectation becomes that 4x more work is delivered. That 4x more work is scheduled in sprints. That 4x more features are developed. That 4x more projects…

I am not asking this as a gotcha, but a genuine curiosity for you or other people who find AI is helping them in terms of multiples. What is your workflow like? Where do you lean on AI vs not? Is it agentic stuff is tab by cursor? I find AI helpful but no where near a multiplier in my day to day development experience. Converting a csv to json or vis-versa great, but AI writing code for me has been less helpful. Beyo…

[dead]

Re: Entry-level jobs down by a third since launch of ChatGPT

#43

Post by eru »

bachmeier wrote: post #34

Okay. It also coincides with the end of the post-pandemic hiring boom and the UK bank rate going from 0.1% to 5.25%. It's kind of funny that reliable data analysis has never been part of the AI hype when you consider that AI is used for data analysis.

> It also coincides with the end of the post-pandemic hiring boom and the UK bank rate going from 0.1% to 5.25%.

I agree that the former is a strong signal. However the latter doesn't tell you anything without further context: did interest rates go up, because the economy was strong, or did rising interest rates dampen the economy?

(It's similar to how you can't tell how hot it is in my apartment, purely from looking at my heating bills: does a low heating bill mean that it's cold in my flat, because I'm too cheap too heat? Or does a low heating bill mean it's summer and really hot anyway?)

Re: Entry-level jobs down by a third since launch of ChatGPT

#44

Post by lazide »

bachmeier wrote: post #34

Okay. It also coincides with the end of the post-pandemic hiring boom and the UK bank rate going from 0.1% to 5.25%. It's kind of funny that reliable data analysis has never been part of the AI hype when you consider that AI is used for data analysis.

‘AI’ is terrible for accurate data analysis, so this isn’t surprising at all.

Re: Entry-level jobs down by a third since launch of ChatGPT

#45

Post by landl0rd »

eru wrote: post #38
486sx33 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So basically compressing the pay scale even further …

Well, many people complain about pay inequality. Compressing scales is the opposite of that, so should be welcomed?

Most of those people aren’t working in highly-paid disciplines like high tech. Generally those disciplines necessarily have wider spreads. I am perfectly fine with this.

If I suddenly have to think really hard at my job all day and do terribly if I’m undersea and still get paid the same or less, I will be left pretty bitter.

Re: Entry-level jobs down by a third since launch of ChatGPT

#46

Post by am17an »

reedf1 wrote: post #9

I think it is possible that the widespread introduction of ChatGPT will cause a brief hiatus on hiring due to the inelasticity of demand. For the sake of argument , imagine that ChatGPT makes your average developer 4x more productive. It will take a while before the expectation becomes that 4x more work is delivered. That 4x more work is scheduled in sprints. That 4x more features are developed. That 4x more projects…

With all the tools around, I think I've maybe become 20% more productive, but 50% less happy in arguing and babysitting the LLMs.

Re: Entry-level jobs down by a third since launch of ChatGPT

#48

Post by dgfitz »

reedf1 wrote: post #27
TSiege wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not asking this as a gotcha, but a genuine curiosity for you or other people who find AI is helping them in terms of multiples. What is your workflow like? Where do you lean on AI vs not? Is it agentic stuff is tab by cursor? I find AI helpful but no where near a multiplier in my day to day development experience. Converting a csv to json or vis-versa great, but AI writing code for me has been less helpful. Beyo…

4x is a number I pulled out of thin air. I'm not sure I even yet believe there is a net positive effect of using AI on productivity. What I am sure about in my own workflow is that is saves me time writing boilerplate code - it is good at this for me . So I would say it has saved me time in the short-term. Now does not writing this boilerplate slow me down long-term? It's possible, I could forget how to do this mysel…

I read this sentiment a lot, and it is true for me too as a completely average software engineer.

Makes it seem like the actual problem to be solved is reducing the amount of boilerplate code that needs to be written, not using an LLM to do it.

I'm not smart enough to write a language or modify one, so this opinion is strongly spoken, weakly held.

Re: Entry-level jobs down by a third since launch of ChatGPT

#49

Post by 9rx »

mgol94 wrote: post #41
skirge wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

stupid government is the root cause - and government is chosen by voters and does what voters want it to do. China is monarchy and monarchs listen to no one.

For US democracy replace "voters" with "lobbyists"

Voters and lobbyists are the same thing. Regularly telling your elected hire what to do is the onus on all participants in a representative system. The employee you hired isn't a mind reader.

The only reason we imagine that there is a distinction is because most voters are too lazy to talk to the person they hired, so those who do stand out.

Re: Entry-level jobs down by a third since launch of ChatGPT

#50

Post by landl0rd »

vevoe wrote: post #24
reedf1 wrote: post #9

I think it is possible that the widespread introduction of ChatGPT will cause a brief hiatus on hiring due to the inelasticity of demand. For the sake of argument , imagine that ChatGPT makes your average developer 4x more productive. It will take a while before the expectation becomes that 4x more work is delivered. That 4x more work is scheduled in sprints. That 4x more features are developed. That 4x more projects…

That makes sense to me. There's another post on the front page right now talking about shortening the work week (I haven't read it yet tbf, so I could be wrong about it's content) because of AI. People have been talking about shorter work weeks for a long time now, it just doesn't happen. What does happen is we get more done and the GDP goes even higher.

“Shortening the workweek” sounds pretty bad… some people will suggest literally anything before higher wages.
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