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The $25k car is going extinct?

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Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#41

Post by soganess »

iancmceachern wrote: post #36
999900000999 wrote: post #8

We don't want affordable Chinese EVs. That's the answer here. They can build cars better, cheaper, faster than we can. Instead Ford wants to sell a 80k SUPER F-250 BIG MANN TRUCK. All for what, you to drive 10 minutes to Walmart, buy groceries and drive back. The best car is the one you don't own. No payments, insurance, parking tickets. Unfortunately most American cities are centered around driving. So much money ,…

We drive an F250, and live in San Francisco. We hardly put any miles on it (maybe 15k a year). To get around locally we ride our bikes mostly here in the city. We do use it for our small business (essential) and also to to a large RV trailer which we use to live in 2-4 months a year visiting loved ones and just decompressing. The things people don't usually talk about is the total cost of ownership. One can buy a new…

[flagged]

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#42

Post by shakna »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #34
999900000999 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on the man, I’ll admit in my early twenties I meet a few partners by being car free. I legit took a girl home after I asked her if she knew why the train was late. In Amsterdam at least one of the train stations has a piano. It becomes a 3rd place were people can make friends and socialize. We don’t have many 3rd places in the US where you can exist without spending money.

Do you have example of places with density similar to US where public transport works well? Australia has some in urban centres, but otherwise car centric. Same in NZ. Elecric bus to my place costs 8x more than driving EV (before it was taxed)

Whilst I can spiel off complaints, public transport in Australia gets my kid to and from school everyday, and myself to and from work in two different cities, everyday, without being late. (When the union isn't striking).

It does seem to work.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#43

Post by 999900000999 »

iancmceachern wrote: post #36
999900000999 wrote: post #8

We don't want affordable Chinese EVs. That's the answer here. They can build cars better, cheaper, faster than we can. Instead Ford wants to sell a 80k SUPER F-250 BIG MANN TRUCK. All for what, you to drive 10 minutes to Walmart, buy groceries and drive back. The best car is the one you don't own. No payments, insurance, parking tickets. Unfortunately most American cities are centered around driving. So much money ,…

We drive an F250, and live in San Francisco. We hardly put any miles on it (maybe 15k a year). To get around locally we ride our bikes mostly here in the city. We do use it for our small business (essential) and also to to a large RV trailer which we use to live in 2-4 months a year visiting loved ones and just decompressing. The things people don't usually talk about is the total cost of ownership. One can buy a new…

You don't have to justify your personal situation to me.

If you feel like buying a 80k truck, that's cool.

The issue with America is the vast majority of truck buyers really can't afford an 80k truck.

This isn't the best source, but it says here the average truck buyer is only making 82k or so.

https://www.myautoconcepts.com/blogdetails?id=4049

From experience talking to friends and sales people plenty of folks with 60 to 80k incomes find themselves in 50k plus vehicles.

I suspect for the majority of truck buyers, if credit wasn't as easily available, they'd find alternatives.

The only reason the typical person can buy an 80k truck is they can get a loan.

Let's say their was a hypothetical car loan limit of 1/4th of your annual income. A lot of people would find out really fast they don't need a massive truck.

Manufacturers would in turn adjust accordingly. A 15k car, maybe without a bunch of touch screens, is possible.

This is probably why cars are cheaper in China, credit isn't as available.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#44

Post by iancmceachern »

999900000999 wrote: post #43
iancmceachern wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We drive an F250, and live in San Francisco. We hardly put any miles on it (maybe 15k a year). To get around locally we ride our bikes mostly here in the city. We do use it for our small business (essential) and also to to a large RV trailer which we use to live in 2-4 months a year visiting loved ones and just decompressing. The things people don't usually talk about is the total cost of ownership. One can buy a new…

You don't have to justify your personal situation to me. If you feel like buying a 80k truck, that's cool. The issue with America is the vast majority of truck buyers really can't afford an 80k truck. This isn't the best source, but it says here the average truck buyer is only making 82k or so. https://www.myautoconcepts.com/blogdetails?id=4049 From experience talking to friends and sales people plenty of folks with…

>>"The issue with America is the vast majority of truck buyers really can't afford an 80k truck."

I would say that's not what matters in this discussion (comparing trucks vs cars).

I would also say the same sentence is true for cars, most Americans can't afford 80k cars.

What I am saying is you are not accurate. Most trucks in the US are not 80k trucks bought by suburban folks to buy groceries in. Most trucks are bought by fleets, by small businesses, etc. They're the standard white fleet specs, not the high end trucks. They're bought by farmers, ranchers and drywallers. Most.

Just because you don't hang around in those circles and only see your suburban neighbors and their trucks doesn't mean that's the overall trend.

Everything you highlight here is also true for cars, and worse even.

I'm not justifying anything, I don't owe you $%&#, I am saying you are wrong and giving evidence as to why.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#45

Post by iancmceachern »

soganess wrote: post #41
iancmceachern wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We drive an F250, and live in San Francisco. We hardly put any miles on it (maybe 15k a year). To get around locally we ride our bikes mostly here in the city. We do use it for our small business (essential) and also to to a large RV trailer which we use to live in 2-4 months a year visiting loved ones and just decompressing. The things people don't usually talk about is the total cost of ownership. One can buy a new…

[flagged]

>>"absolutely prat"

Why the personal insult? Mods is this ok per HN policy?

I use and need it for work, yes big heavy things also need to be done in cities too. I noted this in my original comment. It's very tacky to personally insult a working person for the tools of their trade. You don't like the fact that a plumber needs a plumbing truck? How would a window installer get the windows to the jobsite? How do you bring diesel engines to install in their final locations?

And you are absolutely wrong on the repair of BMWs and especially Audis. Just look at used cars for those brands from a few years ago. You are right on maintenance, but I'm talking about repairs. Things breaking and needing replacement or repair. Anyone who has owned those brands will tell you. Also part prices are a big difference.

If you want a small car buy a Carolla, Camry or a Lexus. I'm not saying buy a big truck.

I'm saying it makes no sense to buy a vehicle over $50k that isn't a diesel pickup, except for "comfort" or "status".

If you don't need one for work, then buy a Camry. They're really nice.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#46

Post by jfengel »

999900000999 wrote: post #8

We don't want affordable Chinese EVs. That's the answer here. They can build cars better, cheaper, faster than we can. Instead Ford wants to sell a 80k SUPER F-250 BIG MANN TRUCK. All for what, you to drive 10 minutes to Walmart, buy groceries and drive back. The best car is the one you don't own. No payments, insurance, parking tickets. Unfortunately most American cities are centered around driving. So much money ,…

I have never seen the bed of a Cybertruck.

Not a dig at the vehicle; that's a different thing. Rather, I notice that this truck doesn't seem to spend much time as a, ya know, truck.

With other trucks it's less obvious because they don't have a built in bed cover. I suspect many of them also spent very little time trucking, at least here in this suburb. Perhaps it's different in more agricultural areas.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#47

Post by philistine »

paxys wrote: post #38

One fact not mentioned in the article - Americans now owe $1.64 trillion in auto loans, and cars make up 9% of all consumer debt in the country. In fact we now owe more on cars than student loans. The average loan term is rising - almost 6 years now. 60-day delinquency on auto loans is at 6.6%, the highest ever recorded, and is as high as 9% in some states. So while car prices keep going up, people also keep going de…

As if the car was ever only a utilitarian commodity at any point in its history. The car has always been a status symbol.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#48

Post by neom »

999900000999 wrote: post #8

We don't want affordable Chinese EVs. That's the answer here. They can build cars better, cheaper, faster than we can. Instead Ford wants to sell a 80k SUPER F-250 BIG MANN TRUCK. All for what, you to drive 10 minutes to Walmart, buy groceries and drive back. The best car is the one you don't own. No payments, insurance, parking tickets. Unfortunately most American cities are centered around driving. So much money ,…

I've been watching WheelsBoy youtube channel a lot, he covers Chinese cars in China: https://www.youtube.com/@Wheelsboy - I don't know if this is the best source, but it's been eye opening to watch.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#49

Post by xbmcuser »

iancmceachern wrote: post #36
999900000999 wrote: post #8

We don't want affordable Chinese EVs. That's the answer here. They can build cars better, cheaper, faster than we can. Instead Ford wants to sell a 80k SUPER F-250 BIG MANN TRUCK. All for what, you to drive 10 minutes to Walmart, buy groceries and drive back. The best car is the one you don't own. No payments, insurance, parking tickets. Unfortunately most American cities are centered around driving. So much money ,…

We drive an F250, and live in San Francisco. We hardly put any miles on it (maybe 15k a year). To get around locally we ride our bikes mostly here in the city. We do use it for our small business (essential) and also to to a large RV trailer which we use to live in 2-4 months a year visiting loved ones and just decompressing. The things people don't usually talk about is the total cost of ownership. One can buy a new…

Although I agree that Trucks are not needed by majority of the people that buy them in the US. The reason for high truck prices is 25% tariff on imported trucks for the last 50 years ie lack of competition.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#50

Post by denkmoon »

welp, guess my corolla needs to last until I die. I spent about $9k usd (in australia though) on it second hand pre covid and I'm just gobsmacked at the prices of vehciles now even years post covid. I make good coin and I just can't see how non-"enthusiasts" can justify spending so much money on their vehicle. there are houses in my suburb with 3-4 of these expensive, new model cars out front.
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