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Bulgaria to Adopt the Euro

euronews.com

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Re: Bulgaria to Adopt the Euro

#41

Post by bpizzi »

Mainan_Tagonist wrote: post #39
bpizzi wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you may be forgetting the big picture, which is to never have Europe spawning a World War again. In that regard, the fears (rational and irrational) of those with tendencies for isolationism are simply not relevant.

what are those odds looking like in the mid future? How many european governments are currently considered on the "extreme" spectrum? And what makes you think the Euro implemented in 2002 is the reason for the non-reoccurence of a war ended in 1945? Studying the root causes of the two world war would certainly enlighten

It is just something we, the children of those who fought, promised to our grand parents on their deathbed. Such things matters.

Re: Bulgaria to Adopt the Euro

#42

Post by aorth »

LfLxfxxLxfxx wrote: post #24
aorth wrote: post #2

I happened to be in downtown Sofia last night by chance and saw the massive protest. https://apnews.com/article/bulgaria-euro-protest-nationalist...

If opposition to the Euro is so massive, can't they simply hold a referendum over it?

Adoption of the Euro currency is mandatory for European Union member states. Only a few states have negotiated an exception (Denmark, previously UK?) and others like Sweden apparently keep delaying somehow. Bulgaria doesn't have much leverage I don't think...

Re: Bulgaria to Adopt the Euro

#43

Post by bigbadfeline »

saturn_vk wrote: post #35
LfLxfxxLxfxx wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If opposition to the Euro is so massive, can't they simply hold a referendum over it?

The Bulgarian currency has been pegged to the Deutsche Mark for more than twenty years now. This means that we’ve pretty much been using the euro since its inception, and any opposition is just a populist manoeuvring

While it's true that a pegged currency is like using the euro with respect to current purchasing power, that definitely isn't all that matters and it isn't the most important consideration either.

Here is something more important - having your own currency and its associated banking infrastructure serves as an insurance against applying financial pressure to the country, such as stuffing non-repayable loans down the country's throat and then gorging on indefinite loan extensions with high interest rates and amounts - a strategy used so many times but mentioned so very rarely.

Case in point - Greece, that happened to them right after they went all in on the euro and killed their drachma.

It might be that Bulgaria has been tied up to the conveyor belt already and there is no way out of the slaughter house, I don't know the case enough to judge, but in principle, the EU would work much better as a customs union, politicizing it has proven to be a dirty affair.

Putin Putin aside for now, he's irrelevant anyway.

Re: Bulgaria to Adopt the Euro

#44

Post by ibobev »

LfLxfxxLxfxx wrote: post #24
aorth wrote: post #2

I happened to be in downtown Sofia last night by chance and saw the massive protest. https://apnews.com/article/bulgaria-euro-protest-nationalist...

If opposition to the Euro is so massive, can't they simply hold a referendum over it?

The Bulgarian parliament refused to organize a referendum despite the civil petition for such.

Re: Bulgaria to Adopt the Euro

#45

Post by t0bia_s »

LfLxfxxLxfxx wrote: post #24
aorth wrote: post #2

I happened to be in downtown Sofia last night by chance and saw the massive protest. https://apnews.com/article/bulgaria-euro-protest-nationalist...

If opposition to the Euro is so massive, can't they simply hold a referendum over it?

Somehow it was possible to do referendum about entering EU membership, but there was none referendum about leaving EU except GB. There would be probably few states where majority would like to leave EU.

Re: Bulgaria to Adopt the Euro

#46

Post by t0bia_s »

aorth wrote: post #42
LfLxfxxLxfxx wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If opposition to the Euro is so massive, can't they simply hold a referendum over it?

Adoption of the Euro currency is mandatory for European Union member states. Only a few states have negotiated an exception (Denmark, previously UK?) and others like Sweden apparently keep delaying somehow. Bulgaria doesn't have much leverage I don't think...

Problem is, that terms for adopt Euro as currency was differnet when becoming a memeber state back then.

Now we have strong push of digital euro with centralised regulations which is something that I would never agree with (privacy and economic concerns) and so I'm agianst adopting Euro in my country.

Re: Bulgaria to Adopt the Euro

#47

Post by t0bia_s »

akmarinov wrote: post #28
LfLxfxxLxfxx wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If opposition to the Euro is so massive, can't they simply hold a referendum over it?

It’s not, it’s a couple hundred people and it’s mostly old folks that are 60+, as they’re easy to be riled up due to them longing for russian occupation. Also a referendum on the topic was ruled illegal, because it’ll violate the EU accession, where EU adoption is mandatory when criteria are met. Also it’s too late now, it all depends on two votes on the 8th of July by the ministers of finance and the EU parliament.…

It is legal to do referendum about entering EU, but illegal to do referendum about leaving EU? It sounds quite totalitarian.

Re: Bulgaria to Adopt the Euro

#48

Post by dzhiurgis »

bigbadfeline wrote: post #43
saturn_vk wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Bulgarian currency has been pegged to the Deutsche Mark for more than twenty years now. This means that we’ve pretty much been using the euro since its inception, and any opposition is just a populist manoeuvring

While it's true that a pegged currency is like using the euro with respect to current purchasing power, that definitely isn't all that matters and it isn't the most important consideration either. Here is something more important - having your own currency and its associated banking infrastructure serves as an insurance against applying financial pressure to the country, such as stuffing non-repayable loans down the…

Did Greece spend the down-the-throat-loans down the drain or invested into infrastructure projects as intended?

Re: Bulgaria to Adopt the Euro

#49

Post by oliwarner »

LfLxfxxLxfxx wrote: post #24
aorth wrote: post #2

I happened to be in downtown Sofia last night by chance and saw the massive protest. https://apnews.com/article/bulgaria-euro-protest-nationalist...

If opposition to the Euro is so massive, can't they simply hold a referendum over it?

[Eventually] joining the Euro is part of the rules to join the EU. One could say they've already voted for this.

As a victim of Brexit, I'd love to undo that particular referendum, but I also understand the instability retrying big decisions would cause. Hungary joining the Euro has been on their cards since 2007.

Re: Bulgaria to Adopt the Euro

#50

Post by bigbadfeline »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #48
bigbadfeline wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While it's true that a pegged currency is like using the euro with respect to current purchasing power, that definitely isn't all that matters and it isn't the most important consideration either. Here is something more important - having your own currency and its associated banking infrastructure serves as an insurance against applying financial pressure to the country, such as stuffing non-repayable loans down the…

Did Greece spend the down-the-throat-loans down the drain or invested into infrastructure projects as intended?

The loans weren't given for investments. Besides, if the Greeks had the drachma they wouldn't be given these loans in the first place.

But you started a very interesting topic - who is more at fault in the case of under-performing loans - the lender, the borrower, or is it 50-50?

Greek's borrowing binge was a drug shot in the arm, when they woke up, they found their shipbuilding industry gone... to the new EU members like Poland who sold cheaper and without tariffs within the EU. The Euro made Greek's recovery impossible.

Unintended consequences or something else? Another interesting topic that applies to many cases besides Greece.

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