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Amazon Tells Employees to Relocate or Resign

entrepreneur.com

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Re: Amazon Tells Employees to Relocate or Resign

#41

Post by jauntywundrkind »

jasonthorsness wrote: post #6

At this point long commutes just seem a waste of time (and I know a number of people in the Seattle area who are forced into long commutes by Amazon only to do most remote meetings once they arrive). Sometimes I do think the ideal job would be a medium-sized company with an office within walking distance of everyone's home. When everyone in the office is aligned on the same thing it's really great to be in-person. I…

The demands to relocate to the same office as your team should eliminate the "only to do most remote meetings" problem, but woof. I can't imagine demanding either jerking around your talent like this (forcing a big move) nor commuting 5 days a week.

Just feels like a billionaire commitment to insuring a better world isn't possible.

Re: Amazon Tells Employees to Relocate or Resign

#42

Post by yks »

UltraSane wrote: post #14

The US road system is a HUGE subsidy to companies by enabling employees to commute long distances. If companies bore the commute costs of worker commutes they would be MUCH more in favor of remote work.

It is obvious that the "suburb-to-downtown commute" lifestyle arrangement of America is not scalable, wasteful and a massive quality of life drain. Yet we're committing to it, why? Because the employers don't want to pay more in unemployment insurance and try to lay you off in some roundabout way? This is maddening.

Re: Amazon Tells Employees to Relocate or Resign

#43

Post by frollogaston »

lurking_swe wrote: post #40
frollogaston wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too many issues with remote employees disappearing to do other stuff during the day. Amazon and others are requiring employees to go to any office, not necessarily the one with their teammates, so it's evidently not about in-person collaboration. My manager (different company) told me straight up, the dept is ok with me working remote but not other people. Older than this is the "open office" thing. We saw over time…

isn’t it trivial for management to see a higher bar, and enforce it? If expectations are not met, just fire them. The solution is simple IMO. Are the managers competent? Do they know how to evaluate if work/goals are being met without counting how many hours the employee is online?

Letting people work at a slow pace for a while, PIPing them, then ultimately firing, is very expensive. An unproductive teammate not only doesn't get stuff done but also brings down the rest of the team.

Edit: Some companies also don't like the morale effects of sink-or-swim, though Amazon is fine with it I've heard.

Re: Amazon Tells Employees to Relocate or Resign

#45

Post by kcplate »

0cf8612b2e1e wrote: post #21
ako wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Changing working location could be a contract change, and (at least in the netherlands), employees cant be forced to accept contract changes or resign.

Even in the USA, changing work location seems like constructive dismissal.

It really depends on what your employment agreement says. If it specifically stipulates that your position is “remote” and your company decides to change that, you could argue that your agreement would need to be renegotiated and their breaking of the contract would entitle you to whatever remedies are in the contract for you when that happens. Hopefully you have a remedy beyond “you stop working for us and we stop paying you”.

My guess is that most larger company agreements post-Covid will have a clause that defines that they have the ability to determine the employee’s work location with at-will covering the employee’s option.

If you think about it—historically, an organization could move its office and most employees did not have a final say in the location. Companies might try to find locations in a workable proximity for most employees, and relocation help options if it’s a bigger move. However, generally it was if it didn’t work for you…you found a new job. Covid and remote work changed the dynamics a bit, but with the state of tech employment levels today technology pros may not have much flexibility to push back.

Re: Amazon Tells Employees to Relocate or Resign

#46

Post by frollogaston »

abirch wrote: post #39
fathomdeez wrote: post #4

Why do these companies keep trying to fire remote employees? Is it so hard to let them keep working from home? Is the company's real estate portfolio that important? You could probably even pay remote workers less (or give non-remote employees a "bonus" for coming in) and everyone would still be happy.

From what I can tell, it's currently an employers' market. 1) Companies are reducing salaries when they hire new workers. 2) Companies are not having problems finding in person employees. I'm going to have a surprised pikachu face when the market flips and everyone resigns from these companies.

Yeah there's this too, some overhired in 2020-21 and want to get rid of people, and it's cheaper if they resign than if they're laid off.

Re: Amazon Tells Employees to Relocate or Resign

#47

Post by frollogaston »

guywithahat wrote: post #15

It's unclear from the article, but it seems like these people were hired near an office, (stupidly) moved away during covid, and now don't want to return. I have sympathy for them, but also it seems stupid to have thought remote work would last longer than covid.

I did this, not at Amazon though. It's a calculated risk that's gone ok so far. If things change, new job or moving back are always options, but most likely not moving back.

Re: Amazon Tells Employees to Relocate or Resign

#48

Post by kcplate »

pfdietz wrote: post #2

Move to the locations where the non-compete laws are more favorable to Amazon.

A non-compete wouldn’t stop me unless it specifically named the competitors, what they wanted to protect, and why.

Non-competes have such a high reasonableness standard that they are not even worth trying to enforce unless you are specifically trying to fuck over your former company.

Re: Amazon Tells Employees to Relocate or Resign

#49

Post by 0cf8612b2e1e »

kcplate wrote: post #45
0cf8612b2e1e wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even in the USA, changing work location seems like constructive dismissal.

It really depends on what your employment agreement says. If it specifically stipulates that your position is “remote” and your company decides to change that, you could argue that your agreement would need to be renegotiated and their breaking of the contract would entitle you to whatever remedies are in the contract for you when that happens. Hopefully you have a remedy beyond “you stop working for us and we stop p…

Given the mad max employment law, I am just hoping (?) that there are some restrictions on this. Otherwise, why would a company ever do layoffs? Just have an employment clause that you can be relocated at any time.

“Yeah, next week we are going to need you to be at work in the Alaska office. Following week, your butt needs to be in Florida. Failure to comply is an instant termination “

Re: Amazon Tells Employees to Relocate or Resign

#50

Post by exolymph »

jleyack wrote: post #38
jleyank wrote: post #23

As I’ve written in the past, companies that tolerate or even encourage WFH will have advantages when it comes to hiring (or retaining) older workers or workers with professional partners. If young bodies are what’s desired, yeah, do the cattle call. If skill and experience matters or there’s any talent availability issues they’re limiting their hiring pool.

I've read everything you've written and it's all solid gold (no homo).

Good thing you specified, because I was assuming that you were gay.
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