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Why don't Americans trust experts? Just ask a paranormal investigator

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Re: Why don't Americans trust experts? Just ask a paranormal investigator

#41

Post by sorcerer-mar »

Bnichs wrote: post #39
sorcerer-mar wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they aren't "all" subject to licensing rules. That's why the specific industries do matter. Can you share some examples of these doctors? AFAIK the only doctors who lost their licenses are those who created fake medical documentation or who shared verifiably false medical information. Not for "disagreeing" with the government stance on vaccines. I don't know if you lived in a different timeline than me, but I rem…

The problem is that when the government itself spreads verifiably false information, there are no reprocussions like there are for the individual who does it. Just like when an individual steals money they tend to face consequences, banks who do the same thing on a much more massive scale face nothing.

You're suggesting the government shared information that was verifiably false at the time it was shared?

Can you give some examples?

Re: Why don't Americans trust experts? Just ask a paranormal investigator

#42

Post by dogtierstatus »

MiscIdeaMaker99 wrote: post #11
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Covid taught me that there is a large percentage of population that won’t trust experts to the point of ignoring critical thought. Also dangerous.

I agree. Lots and lots of them died, as result.

is this how modern survival of the fittest work now?

Re: Why don't Americans trust experts? Just ask a paranormal investigator

#43

Post by lloda2 »

Bnichs wrote: post #19

>If our institutions can communicate their work better, supernatural beliefs will dry up a bit. We’ve seen this historically. I feel like this article misses the reason why people distrust institutions. Being "kicked out of the tent" is no doubt part of it, but it's more that the institutions themselves have stopped trying to communicate in good faith. In the past 50 or so years we've seen almost every institution (i…

The church, the education system, the healthcare system, the government, and the banks, are all actual people. You guys are doing this to yourselves in an effort to scam each other.

Re: Why don't Americans trust experts? Just ask a paranormal investigator

#44

Post by add-sub-mul-div »

sorcerer-mar wrote: post #25
Bnichs wrote: post #19

>If our institutions can communicate their work better, supernatural beliefs will dry up a bit. We’ve seen this historically. I feel like this article misses the reason why people distrust institutions. Being "kicked out of the tent" is no doubt part of it, but it's more that the institutions themselves have stopped trying to communicate in good faith. In the past 50 or so years we've seen almost every institution (i…

Nah, you're exhibiting the fundamental problem which is effectively conspiratorial thinking. Not in the UFO sense, and I don't mean it disparagingly at all -- I mean literally ascribing behavior to some type of superstructure that doesn't really exist. "The healthcare system" is not one thing that "says" stuff. For every component of the education system that was trying to eliminate trades, there were others trying t…

It's not a consipracy theory that the Catholic church harbored pedophiles, it's fact. Yes, there are many good people within the institution who are horrified by this. Not all participated in the conspiracy, and "conspiracy" might not be the right word. But the fact remains, this was the net behavior of the institution.

Re: Why don't Americans trust experts? Just ask a paranormal investigator

#45

Post by sorcerer-mar »

add-sub-mul-div wrote: post #44
sorcerer-mar wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, you're exhibiting the fundamental problem which is effectively conspiratorial thinking. Not in the UFO sense, and I don't mean it disparagingly at all -- I mean literally ascribing behavior to some type of superstructure that doesn't really exist. "The healthcare system" is not one thing that "says" stuff. For every component of the education system that was trying to eliminate trades, there were others trying t…

It's not a consipracy theory that the Catholic church harbored pedophiles, it's fact. Yes, there are many good people within the institution who are horrified by this. Not all participated in the conspiracy, and "conspiracy" might not be the right word. But the fact remains, this was the net behavior of the institution.

I totally agree, the Catholic church is actually quite monolithic/coherent/directly culpable for output behavior.

That's why I didn't list it in my response, though I think there's even a meaningful difference between "the church" (a super heterogenous type of organization) and "the Catholic church" (a single, highly centralized organization).

Re: Why don't Americans trust experts? Just ask a paranormal investigator

#46

Post by sorcerer-mar »

jonathanstrange wrote: post #13

This is my pet peeve topic because this alleged need for "trust" has become so ubiquitous. It's like a meme that is parroted blindly. At a closer look, it's in my opinion not so clear whether trust should play any substantial role in dealing with potential knowledge and insight, especially since the term "expert" is interpreted ranging from "a guy who wrote an M.A. thesis about some related topic" to "internationally…

This is why COVID was the breaking point: it was one of the very rare scenarios where highly technical and shifting scientific understanding was directly attached to meaningful lifestyle impacts for people.

Science is always at least as messy (generally more so) as it was during COVID, but generally it doesn't matter because only "settled science" gets turned into technology and deployed to people's lives. All the input chaos has been abstracted away by the time it matters at all to most people.

The general public is not, has never been, and never will be cognitively and intellectually equipped to grapple with shifting science directly -- nor should they need to, they've got other shit to do that scientists can't do!

Re: Why don't Americans trust experts? Just ask a paranormal investigator

#47

Post by reylas »

sorcerer-mar wrote: post #40
reylas wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"A climate scientist knows best", lets talk about this one as it is a perfect example of lost trust. It is not corruption that destroys the message, but constantly being incorrect. Just a warning, I may agree with them overall, but they are constantly getting the numbers wrong. We have been 3 years away from the point of no return for the last 20 years. I am old enough to remember the "ice age" that we were going to…

> I'm smart and paid close enough attention to see through the bullshit > [relays bullshit] There was never anything like a scientific consensus on a coming ice age. https://journals.ametsoc.org/view/journals/bams/89/9/2008bam... > One way to determine what scientists think is to ask them. This was actually done in 1977 following the severe 1976/77 winter in the eastern United States. "Collectively," the 24 eminent c…

Wasn't duped then, not duped now. All I am saying is that I heard people talk about it. You even agree, right? or you would not have said that there was not consensus. That means you at least heard it. Lots of people did and now they trust less because of it.

No where in my statement did I say that I agreed with anything, just that constant "false predictions" causes people to quit listening.

But as you have proved, reading comprehension can be a big part as well.

Re: Why don't Americans trust experts? Just ask a paranormal investigator

#48

Post by sorcerer-mar »

reylas wrote: post #47
sorcerer-mar wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm smart and paid close enough attention to see through the bullshit > [relays bullshit] There was never anything like a scientific consensus on a coming ice age. https://journals.ametsoc.org/view/journals/bams/89/9/2008bam... > One way to determine what scientists think is to ask them. This was actually done in 1977 following the severe 1976/77 winter in the eastern United States. "Collectively," the 24 eminent c…

Wasn't duped then, not duped now. All I am saying is that I heard people talk about it. You even agree, right? or you would not have said that there was not consensus. That means you at least heard it. Lots of people did and now they trust less because of it. No where in my statement did I say that I agreed with anything, just that constant "false predictions" causes people to quit listening. But as you have proved,…

> I am old enough to remember the "ice age" that we were going to enter.

You are remembering a fringe theory amigo. If that's what you expected to happen, it's because you were listening to fringe scientists.

You are continuing to listen to fringe scientists.

Science happens in public, so you will hear all sorts of different theories thrown out. If you are latching onto these and then perceiving divergence from them later on as "creating a loss of trust," that's on you. It means you are incapable of reasoning about the world and is probably something you should try to address yourself instead of externalizing blame.

Re: Why don't Americans trust experts? Just ask a paranormal investigator

#49

Post by Bnichs »

sorcerer-mar wrote: post #41
Bnichs wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that when the government itself spreads verifiably false information, there are no reprocussions like there are for the individual who does it. Just like when an individual steals money they tend to face consequences, banks who do the same thing on a much more massive scale face nothing.

You're suggesting the government shared information that was verifiably false at the time it was shared? Can you give some examples?

Just to preface. Covid is the new Nazis, all arguments end up devolving into its discussion. Im tired of talking about covid but it's hard to get past how our country handled it, both the people and the government. To answer your question: https://www.politifact.com/article/2024/jun/06/did-fauci-say...

>He said the 6-foot guideline “sort of just appeared” and wasn’t based on any data, and that such a study would be difficult to do. He also said he didn’t recall any studies about masking young children, but said the guideline was the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s decision.

https://oversight.house.gov/release/hearing-wrap-up-dr-fauci...

Making up arbitrary rules and then enforcing them saying "trust the science" is not coming from a place of honesty. Especially when combined with the deletion of emails.

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