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Why do all browsers' user agents start with "Mozilla/"? (2008)

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Re: Why do all browsers' user agents start with "Mozilla/"? (2008)

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s also no reason that the public facing name has to be the same as the internal name. They could have called it Windows 9 and internally reported it as anything in the apis. Its basically standard in software to do this when the actual name for something comes out near the end or changes often so you don’t have to update all the code to reference the new name.

> There’s also no reason that the public facing name has to be the same as the internal name. They could have called it Windows 9 and internally reported it as anything in the apis. This is what they were doing at the time anyway. Windows 7 was 6.1, Windows 8 was 6.2, Windows 8.1 was 6.3.

And still to this day, where Windows 11 is for instance version 10.0.26100

Re: Why do all browsers' user agents start with "Mozilla/"? (2008)

#42

Not all browsers (e.g. "Lynx/2.9.0dev.12 libwww-FM/2.1") :)

Not to forget SpaceGoat/2000, my usual go-to when building something which does browser-like things. I've been using that one since before the year 2000 so maybe it is time for an upgrade to SuperSpaceGoat/2100?

Re: Why do all browsers' user agents start with "Mozilla/"? (2008)

#43

Has anyone tried running a generic User-Agent on a standard modern browser? (By "generic", I mean one that does away with this whole compatibility dance.) I'm curious how much would break or degrade.

I once tried having my web browser claim to be the Google spider. It worked well and I completely forgot about it until one website soft banned me a year or two later for impersonating the Google spider. I contacted them to complain. They lifted the ban and told me the ban reason, which made me remember the experiment I never terminated.

Re: Why do all browsers' user agents start with "Mozilla/"? (2008)

#44
post #18
post #6

Mozilla should start charging a licensing fee for starting your user agent with Mozilla/ Money problems solved!

In a way it seems like a classic trademark violation, tricking people (or their servers) into thinking your product is someone else’s. I wonder if there are actual agreements about this these days.

User agent strings aren't really seen by people so arguably there is no consumer confusion. And if you need the Mozilla user agent for compatibility it's reminiscent of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sega_v._Accolade

Re: Why do all browsers' user agents start with "Mozilla/"? (2008)

#45
post #36
post #6

Mozilla should start charging a licensing fee for starting your user agent with Mozilla/ Money problems solved!

Google would have to pay a lot of licensing fees then... > Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; Android 10; K) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/137.0.0.0 Mobile Safari/537.36 It is Mozilla (nope), Linux (yes, in a sense), Android (yes) AppleWebKit (not Apple and not WebKit), KHTML (nope), Gecko (nope), Chrome (yes), Mobile (yes), Safari (nope). So maybe they owe something to Mozilla, Apple and KDE.

To be fair Blink engine started as a fork of Apple's WebKit engine. Although I wouldn't be suprised if none of the WebKit code is present on Chromium now...

Re: Why do all browsers' user agents start with "Mozilla/"? (2008)

#47

Has anyone tried running a generic User-Agent on a standard modern browser? (By "generic", I mean one that does away with this whole compatibility dance.) I'm curious how much would break or degrade.

I tried doing that in the early 2010s. Even back then it didn't work (github broke for example). If you did it today, you'd likely be blocked by a lot of major websites for "lying" about your user agent. Cloudflare turnstiles will stop working, you'll get captcha'd to death, and so on.

Even tor-browser doesn't dare to modify the user agent string in any major way. It's almost impossible to lie about because trackers don't actually care about your user agent. They're identifying your device/OS through side channels (canvas, webgl, fonts, etc).

Re: Why do all browsers' user agents start with "Mozilla/"? (2008)

#48

In a similar way: Why was there no Windows 9? [1] [1]: https://www.pcworld.com/article/435584/why-windows-10-isnt-n...

My pet theory was that they wanted to stay on the next version indefinitely but Mac OS seemed to be indefinitely on version 10, and they couldn't be one behind. Funnily enough, soon after Mac OS went to version 11, Windows 11 was announced.

(realistically though, the '9x' problem does make a lot of sense)

Re: Why do all browsers' user agents start with "Mozilla/"? (2008)

#49
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google would have to pay a lot of licensing fees then... > Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; Android 10; K) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/137.0.0.0 Mobile Safari/537.36 It is Mozilla (nope), Linux (yes, in a sense), Android (yes) AppleWebKit (not Apple and not WebKit), KHTML (nope), Gecko (nope), Chrome (yes), Mobile (yes), Safari (nope). So maybe they owe something to Mozilla, Apple and KDE.

To be fair Blink engine started as a fork of Apple's WebKit engine. Although I wouldn't be suprised if none of the WebKit code is present on Chromium now...

And to be fair on the topic of being fair, Apple's WebKit started as a fork of KHTML. So the string makes some sense.

Re: Why do all browsers' user agents start with "Mozilla/"? (2008)

#50
post #44
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a way it seems like a classic trademark violation, tricking people (or their servers) into thinking your product is someone else’s. I wonder if there are actual agreements about this these days.

User agent strings aren't really seen by people so arguably there is no consumer confusion. And if you need the Mozilla user agent for compatibility it's reminiscent of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sega_v._Accolade

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