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Wayland is growing up. and now we don't have a choice

fireborn.mataroa.blog

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Re: Wayland is growing up. and now we don't have a choice

#41

Post by mkesper »

mkesper wrote: post #10

TLDR (non-AI): The author raises very valid points about accessibility under Wayland. The "And Now We Don’t Have a Choice" subtitle seems to address that only Gnome seems to have usable accessibility under Wayland right now but can easily be misunderstood as "we have no alternative to Wayland". The author also mentions X11 sucked in many ways and that this transition also is a moment to rethink what proper accessibil…

People downvoting my TLDR and all that nonsense about XLibre on top is making me sad.

Re: Wayland is growing up. and now we don't have a choice

#42

Post by vidarh »

holowoodman wrote: post #28
mkesper wrote: post #10

TLDR (non-AI): The author raises very valid points about accessibility under Wayland. The "And Now We Don’t Have a Choice" subtitle seems to address that only Gnome seems to have usable accessibility under Wayland right now but can easily be misunderstood as "we have no alternative to Wayland". The author also mentions X11 sucked in many ways and that this transition also is a moment to rethink what proper accessibil…

Wayland is a perfect example of the second system effect and the sunk cost fallacy. X11 had problems, but instead of fixing them, developers threw the baby out with the bathwater, designed something completely byzantine and weird. Time was invested, so no stopping now or ever. The design of wayland introduces more problems than it solves, only by plastering over with yet another extra protocol that you have to implem…

I'm sorely tempted to take the backend of a Wayland compositor and write a new X server on top of it, with a focus on deprecating everything not actually used by modern X apps that don't have alternatives, which would be a lot.

I bet you could benefit from quite a bit of the Wayland compositor work on modernising the lower levels, and end up with something much simpler than current Xorg without ditching much compatibility.

Re: Wayland is growing up. and now we don't have a choice

#46

Post by abhinavk »

Fr3ck wrote: post #31
Kim_Bruning wrote: post #12

More and more people are using GPT for editing. I admit to sometimes using AI to help me too. To be fair, I'm not sure what to think of this particular slick style quite yet.

What in particular drove you to leave this comment? I am just curious. This doesn't strike me as Gen AI slop like other posts I see sometimes.

People see an em dash and dismiss it as slop.

Maybe they don't know but some of us love them and have keyboards which have an em-dash/en-dash key or use an OS where they are easy to type.

Re: Wayland is growing up. and now we don't have a choice

#47

Post by bmacho »

vidarh wrote: post #29
bmacho wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it is a good reason or even an acceptable reason to actively censor the news about the project, and prevent people to communicate about it. While XLibre is unfortunately political at the moment, this is not an excuse for what the HN staff is doing.

You keep assuming that it's HN staff, but HN articles very often get flagged by regular users when they get political, and having seen some of the comments on one of the other articles, including some of yours, I'm not the slightest bit surprised they got flagged. If people want Xlibre to have a shot at HN at all, those are things to fix. Making unsubstantiated claims about HN staff is not going to change anything -…

No, a project or a project leader having haters (just this thread there are 3 distinct people jumping in with various insults or fake news on normal questions) should not be enough for something to get censored. What kind of 'Why are you hitting yourself?' logic is that?

> You keep assuming that it's HN staff,

It's HN staff, and I've already explained it. Read back.

Re: Wayland is growing up. and now we don't have a choice

#48

Post by Joker_vD »

holowoodman wrote: post #28
mkesper wrote: post #10

TLDR (non-AI): The author raises very valid points about accessibility under Wayland. The "And Now We Don’t Have a Choice" subtitle seems to address that only Gnome seems to have usable accessibility under Wayland right now but can easily be misunderstood as "we have no alternative to Wayland". The author also mentions X11 sucked in many ways and that this transition also is a moment to rethink what proper accessibil…

Wayland is a perfect example of the second system effect and the sunk cost fallacy. X11 had problems, but instead of fixing them, developers threw the baby out with the bathwater, designed something completely byzantine and weird. Time was invested, so no stopping now or ever. The design of wayland introduces more problems than it solves, only by plastering over with yet another extra protocol that you have to implem…

> designed something completely byzantine and weird. Time was invested, so no stopping now or ever. [...] is a dead horse. Made edible by sufficient fermentation and mobile towards the finish line by declaring the rot spreading over the line to be a victory.

This applies perfectly well as a criticism of X11, you know.

Re: Wayland is growing up. and now we don't have a choice

#49

Post by wizzwizz4 »

Fr3ck wrote: post #31
Kim_Bruning wrote: post #12

More and more people are using GPT for editing. I admit to sometimes using AI to help me too. To be fair, I'm not sure what to think of this particular slick style quite yet.

What in particular drove you to leave this comment? I am just curious. This doesn't strike me as Gen AI slop like other posts I see sometimes.

It's got an —, and apparently these are called "ChatGPT hyphens" now – even though they're on my keyboard.

Re: Wayland is growing up. and now we don't have a choice

#50

Post by wizzwizz4 »

lotharcable wrote: post #20
Ezhik wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's XLibre? Are they taking Linux desktop accessibility more seriously?

XLibre is a fork of Xorg X11's codebase started by a developer who got kicked out of the Xorg project because he was making lots of changes that broke everything and had a hard time getting along with the other devs. Another dev blindly applied his MRs assuming he had tested stuff before submitting the request and they had to go back and revert a bunch of stuff. Broke nvidia compatibility, broke xrandr extension, and…

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