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Sorcerer (YC S24) raises $3.9M to launch more weather balloons

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Re: Sorcerer (YC S24) raises $3.9M to launch more weather balloons

#41

Post by throwawaymaths »

huslage wrote: post #11
jaccola wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By this logic anything could become government run but never transition from government run to privately run, creating a ratcheting mechanism that would eventually lead to ~everything being government run! The pro case for privatisation (that I happen to believe in) is: you were paying for it anyway, via your tax dollars, having it private leads to competition and stronger incentives to improve/cut costs meaning it w…

You are oversimplifying here. I ALREADY paid for the weather balloons and they are no longer being launched. This is not privatization in the way that you seem to think it is. This is explicitly against the will of the people. I'm fine if they want to make new weather balloons and sell them to people to launch for whatever reason they want. Selling what by law should be public data is anathema.

can you explain by what criteria you decide what data should be public or not?

Re: Sorcerer (YC S24) raises $3.9M to launch more weather balloons

#42

Post by skyyler »

Alupis wrote: post #37
tartoran wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Weather balloons are a recurring cost. What do you think taxes are? Do we pay taxes once and that's it?

It's extremely unlikely any of your tax dollars were allocated to projects like what is being discussed here. It's much more likely (given the Federal Government's total budget and allocations) that this money was being borrowed and/or printed. So, put another way, is it better for the government to continue going into debt to operate projects like this with potentially dubious returns - or better to allow the privat…

>So, put another way, is it better for the government to continue going into debt to operate projects like this with potentially dubious returns

Yes. The government is not a business. It does not need to turn a profit. Government services are not products for the generation of profit.

Re: Sorcerer (YC S24) raises $3.9M to launch more weather balloons

#44

Post by fragmede »

Alupis wrote: post #37
tartoran wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Weather balloons are a recurring cost. What do you think taxes are? Do we pay taxes once and that's it?

It's extremely unlikely any of your tax dollars were allocated to projects like what is being discussed here. It's much more likely (given the Federal Government's total budget and allocations) that this money was being borrowed and/or printed. So, put another way, is it better for the government to continue going into debt to operate projects like this with potentially dubious returns - or better to allow the privat…

This framing is off. Weather data isn’t a fucking mars habitat, it’s core infrastructure. Airplane travel, agriculture, emergency response, and private weather services all depend on it. If anything, handing it off to profit-driven firms creates more risk with things like black-box pricing, gaps in data coverage, or national security issues.

And, “dubious returns” ignores that some of the highest-leverage investments in history looked like this. Government-funded satellite weather programs, GPS, and early internet tech weren’t obviously profitable, but I'm so glad we wasted tax dollars on that.

Re: Sorcerer (YC S24) raises $3.9M to launch more weather balloons

#45

Post by huslage »

khazhoux wrote: post #39
huslage wrote: post #8

This is an anti-pattern. Doing the work that the government should be (and was) doing and then selling back the data to them or others when the data should be (and was) public domain is absolutely terrible for society. No one should fund this.

Flawed premise. Weather modeling is not an essential service of a government

Tell me that after your house gets leveled by a tornado and you don't get a warning.

Re: Sorcerer (YC S24) raises $3.9M to launch more weather balloons

#46

Post by huslage »

CGMthrowaway wrote: post #20
huslage wrote: post #8

This is an anti-pattern. Doing the work that the government should be (and was) doing and then selling back the data to them or others when the data should be (and was) public domain is absolutely terrible for society. No one should fund this.

Why can't private enterprise do weather?

There are many private weather companies.

Re: Sorcerer (YC S24) raises $3.9M to launch more weather balloons

#47

Post by msgodel »

huslage wrote: post #8

This is an anti-pattern. Doing the work that the government should be (and was) doing and then selling back the data to them or others when the data should be (and was) public domain is absolutely terrible for society. No one should fund this.

Better to put all the PE money to work on it than borrowing at 5%.

Re: Sorcerer (YC S24) raises $3.9M to launch more weather balloons

#48

Post by Alupis »

fragmede wrote: post #44
Alupis wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's extremely unlikely any of your tax dollars were allocated to projects like what is being discussed here. It's much more likely (given the Federal Government's total budget and allocations) that this money was being borrowed and/or printed. So, put another way, is it better for the government to continue going into debt to operate projects like this with potentially dubious returns - or better to allow the privat…

This framing is off. Weather data isn’t a fucking mars habitat, it’s core infrastructure. Airplane travel, agriculture, emergency response, and private weather services all depend on it. If anything, handing it off to profit-driven firms creates more risk with things like black-box pricing, gaps in data coverage, or national security issues. And, “dubious returns” ignores that some of the highest-leverage investments…

The government obtains weather data in other ways. This isn't an all-or-nothing thing based on balloons...

Re: Sorcerer (YC S24) raises $3.9M to launch more weather balloons

#49

Post by Alupis »

skyyler wrote: post #42
Alupis wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's extremely unlikely any of your tax dollars were allocated to projects like what is being discussed here. It's much more likely (given the Federal Government's total budget and allocations) that this money was being borrowed and/or printed. So, put another way, is it better for the government to continue going into debt to operate projects like this with potentially dubious returns - or better to allow the privat…

>So, put another way, is it better for the government to continue going into debt to operate projects like this with potentially dubious returns Yes. The government is not a business. It does not need to turn a profit. Government services are not products for the generation of profit.

Nobody said anything about profit. We don't need to move the goal posts here.

There is a difference between the government operating programs with tax dollars and operating programs with fantasy money that ultimately hurts every single citizen.

Re: Sorcerer (YC S24) raises $3.9M to launch more weather balloons

#50

Post by counters »

huslage wrote: post #8

This is an anti-pattern. Doing the work that the government should be (and was) doing and then selling back the data to them or others when the data should be (and was) public domain is absolutely terrible for society. No one should fund this.

It's not - it actually the core mechanism through which the "Weather Enterprise" works. Over 20 years, an important report from the National Academies [1] laid out how an enterprise comprised of public, private, and academic sector interests could work cooperatively to bolster the public good that is weather and climate information and services. It has always been the domain of the federal government to provide core, foundational data products (including forecasts and raw weather observations of many modalities) for both bolstering academic research as well as private sector innovation. The government's mission in the enterprise leaves plenty of room for private sector players to extend, complement, and supplement the foundational services provided by the public sector.

Sorcerer fits perfectly into the existing framework of the weather, water, and climate enterprise (WWCE). They produce complementary data and ensure that the government has access to it - even if the government must procure it (which they're happy to do - no one expects that these companies should give away all their data, gratis). But they could potentially greatly extend the core global synoptic observation system that powers conventional numerical weather prediction, especially for organizations which are more flexible and can work with broader data sources.

This is the WWCE working well. The real concern is on ensuring continuity - making sure innovative companies like Sorcerer can persist, in perpetuity if necessary (or at least the data products they collect and produce).

[1]: https://nap.nationalacademies.org/catalog/10610/fair-weather...

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