Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Research suggests Big Bang may have taken place inside a black hole

port.ac.uk

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 647 posts

Re: Research suggests Big Bang may have taken place inside a black hole

#41

Post by runarberg »

jjallen wrote: post #4

What if it wasn't the beginning of our universe or wasn't the beginning of everything, including what is probably outside of our universe?

As I understand it (I‘m not a cosmologist by any means), saying that the observable universe began at big bang simply means that anything that happened before the big bang has no effect on what happens afterwards.

There may be other universes out there, with their own big bangs, but that has no effect on ours.

Reading this article, I think they are simply disputing the necessity of singularity inside a black hole, and hypothesize a universe which expands from non-singularity black hole, while staying inside its own event-horizon.

That is how I understood it at least, somebody please correct me if I misunderstood it.

Re: Research suggests Big Bang may have taken place inside a black hole

#42

Post by gjsman-1000 »

Vrondi wrote: post #37
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You're missing the part where the robot was created by us.

Wow, that makes it even dumber. That idea was literally also in Genesis as the original sin of man: "You shall be as Gods."

Edit, for posting too fast: I don't consider the response below to be in good faith, for if there is a God, nothing could be more offensive than to deliberately try to knock him down a few pegs to be "plausible"; while considering the Big Bang to be "plausible" because that doesn't count as "fantasy style magic."

Re: Research suggests Big Bang may have taken place inside a black hole

#43

Post by cwmoore »

asveikau wrote: post #18
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Your honor, I could not have possibly shot that person, because yesterday might not have been before today, or at least, there is reasonable doubt that yesterday was before today, according to some physicists on crack. I treat those physicists with high regard personally though, and they have degrees that you don't have, so the court must reasonably conclude their opinions should be entertained."

I guess that's a joke, but it's actually kind of serious that causality, personhood, identity, free will, etc. are all social constructs. They are useful to us, but every now and then it's helpful and humbling to remember it's a fiction we assign, rather than fundamental. Criminal justice or the concept of culpability is one of these areas. I know I've seen material by Robert Sapolsky, a neuroscientist who does not b…

Let me strengthen the observation to say they are the “social constructs [most] useful to [those who survive] us.”

Re: Research suggests Big Bang may have taken place inside a black hole

#44

Post by lazide »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #38
mrtksn wrote: post #16

Isn't time a human invention useful to model the nature? It's literally just a defined interaction as a reference, i.e. the sun rising up and going down which is the rotation of the earth. So IRL there's no time, there's no need to have a beginning or an end. Whatever happened when all the matter was close together isn't the beginning of anything, just a phase.

No, time is what the clock measures. Consciousness does not collapse the wave function meaning clocks exists without humans and time exists without humans.

The second, however, is a purely human invention.

Re: Research suggests Big Bang may have taken place inside a black hole

#45

Post by roywiggins »

mrtksn wrote: post #16

Isn't time a human invention useful to model the nature? It's literally just a defined interaction as a reference, i.e. the sun rising up and going down which is the rotation of the earth. So IRL there's no time, there's no need to have a beginning or an end. Whatever happened when all the matter was close together isn't the beginning of anything, just a phase.

The hot dense universe caused our current cool universe, and not the other way around, which makes the two states of the universe quite different.

Re: Research suggests Big Bang may have taken place inside a black hole

#46

Post by layer8 »

asveikau wrote: post #18
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Your honor, I could not have possibly shot that person, because yesterday might not have been before today, or at least, there is reasonable doubt that yesterday was before today, according to some physicists on crack. I treat those physicists with high regard personally though, and they have degrees that you don't have, so the court must reasonably conclude their opinions should be entertained."

I guess that's a joke, but it's actually kind of serious that causality, personhood, identity, free will, etc. are all social constructs. They are useful to us, but every now and then it's helpful and humbling to remember it's a fiction we assign, rather than fundamental. Criminal justice or the concept of culpability is one of these areas. I know I've seen material by Robert Sapolsky, a neuroscientist who does not b…

That doesn’t affect time in the sense discussed here, though, which is a fundamental dimension in our physical theories.

Re: Research suggests Big Bang may have taken place inside a black hole

#47

Post by mrtksn »

Morizero wrote: post #29
mrtksn wrote: post #16

Isn't time a human invention useful to model the nature? It's literally just a defined interaction as a reference, i.e. the sun rising up and going down which is the rotation of the earth. So IRL there's no time, there's no need to have a beginning or an end. Whatever happened when all the matter was close together isn't the beginning of anything, just a phase.

Not true. The arrow of entropy has a direction and it's the same as the arrow of time. There's not a good explanation for why though.

There's no arrow of entropy, it's an invented useful model to describe something that nature does. Everything is like that, I.e. there's no electric field, it's a useful way to do calculations about particle interactions.

Re: Research suggests Big Bang may have taken place inside a black hole

#49

Post by layer8 »

emigre wrote: post #26
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Your honor, I could not have possibly shot that person, because yesterday might not have been before today, or at least, there is reasonable doubt that yesterday was before today, according to some physicists on crack. I treat those physicists with high regard personally though, and they have degrees that you don't have, so the court must reasonably conclude their opinions should be entertained."

"Objection, your honor. In the many-worlds interpretation there is a world in which that happened."

Many-worlds doesn’t predict that everything happens somewhere; far from it.

Re: Research suggests Big Bang may have taken place inside a black hole

#50

Post by bglusman »

Wow, wild this is being taken seriously now perhaps, I first encountered the idea in The Life of The Cosmos ~26 years ago[0] and my impression was the author, Lee Smolin, didn't REALLY beleive it, but he came up with it mostly to have some kind of preferable, falsifiable(er?) alternative to string theory, which he disliked even more, and perhaps more as an idea of the kind of theory we need to explore to start making progress... or that's my memory/impression form 26 years ago, I've been meaning to re-read it for a while since. Anyone read more recently/have other impressions?

(the basic idea was fecund universes/cosmological natural selection[1], such that we should expect to find ourselves, if the theory were true, very near to a local maxima of values such that they approximately maximize the number of black holes produced... but most of the book is really taken up with a fascinating look at the history of physics and ideas...)

[0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Life_of_the_Cosmos [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmological_natural_selection

Post reply on HN