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Steve Jobs would have fired everyone

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Re: Steve Jobs would have fired everyone

#41

Post by JimDabell »

This is something I posted on Threads yesterday, but this kind of thing comes up every WWDC and every September.

> It’s WWDC week. Every time this rolls around, I see people saying the same sort of thing. “Steve Jobs wouldn’t have done this”.

> Firstly, Jobs wasn’t perfect. He got a lot of things right and a lot of things wrong. His opinion wasn’t the end of the argument when he was alive, and it’s certainly not now that he’s been dead 14 years.

> But more importantly: Stop putting your opinion in a dead man’s mouth to give it more credibility. It’s ghoulish. Let your opinion stand on its own two feet.

Re: Steve Jobs would have fired everyone

#42

Post by [deleted] »

terhechte wrote: post #6

The "it would have been different under Steve Jobs" trope is coming up every so often when Apple introduces a radical new feature. Oftentimes I don't agree but in this case I absolutely do. A huge amount of engineering to get these shader effects right, but the outcome will be that the platforms will look more like a fruit salad and less coherent. Companies that invested in React Native, Flutter, Tauri, or alternativ…

[deleted]

Re: Steve Jobs would have fired everyone

#43

Post by adwawdawd »

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #35
adwawdawd wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The primary color turns dark when the background is too bright, see "Meet Liquid Glass" or "What's new in SwiftUI" from WWDC25.

(a) Changing the primary colour past a certain threshold is not a solution, in my experience: there are backgrounds where the contrast is too low, no matter what you do. (b) Even if it were, Apple's implementation doesn't work. https://furry.engineer/@cendyne/114660612541978921 I've been playing with such UIs for years, and they've never left my personal setup, because – while very pretty – they're not worth the hass…

(a) fair point but edge cases exist everywhere

(b) this is the developer seed do you think they will ship it like this?

Re: Steve Jobs would have fired everyone

#44

Post by wizzwizz4 »

adwawdawd wrote: post #43
wizzwizz4 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(a) Changing the primary colour past a certain threshold is not a solution, in my experience: there are backgrounds where the contrast is too low, no matter what you do. (b) Even if it were, Apple's implementation doesn't work. https://furry.engineer/@cendyne/114660612541978921 I've been playing with such UIs for years, and they've never left my personal setup, because – while very pretty – they're not worth the hass…

(a) fair point but edge cases exist everywhere (b) this is the developer seed do you think they will ship it like this?

(a) Looking around me, I'm struggling to find a photo I could take that wouldn't trigger this "edge-case" – so it can't be that much of an edge-case.

(b) I'd expect them to patch this particular issue, now it's been widely-publicised, but Apple's pushed bigger defects to prod over the last few years (e.g. https://www.applevis.com/bugs/ios/when-editing-text-using-ha...). I'd be extremely surprised if this feature shipped in a properly usable state, especially given that their marketing shows that several fundamental design flaws are works-as-intended.

Re: Steve Jobs would have fired everyone

#45

Post by cm277 »

benterix wrote: post #13

I know people hate this but it shows a huge problem: innovation in operating system design. It's really a tough one. You really want the basic functionality to be very stable and unchanging to save yourself and others incompatibility pain over the next decades. OTOH, you need to release a new OS every now and again to show the markets that you are doing something. So they did a cosmetic upgrade like changing the grap…

UI is fashion-driven like clothing or furniture or car design. That's not new, it's just hard to admit for us techies that such a thing exists in our world. And just like with fashion, some changes are not for 'better' but for 'cooler' or 'more interesting'. The question is how far on the 'worse' scale you're willing to go to get up on the 'cool' scale. Otherwise, we'd all still be running Windows Server 2000...

Re: Steve Jobs would have fired everyone

#46

Post by 0xTJ »

Wow, I didn't care enough about the news to actually look at any pictures, I just read the name and heard the general idea. That is truly awful. On top of the multiple visible layers of stuff everywhere, those are some of the ugliest "squircle" shapes that I've ever seen, beaten only by the app icons in Samsung's Android skin.

Look at how the red notification icon of a folder gets mirrored and stretched near the top of the media widget. It makes the widgets look particularly odd (it seems like an optical illusion, I find that the straight edges of squares look bent out, until I look right at them and see them as straight). The only positive I can give them if that someone worked hard on figuring out how to distort the images underneath.

Re: Steve Jobs would have fired everyone

#47

Post by terhechte »

douglaswlance wrote: post #28
terhechte wrote: post #6

The "it would have been different under Steve Jobs" trope is coming up every so often when Apple introduces a radical new feature. Oftentimes I don't agree but in this case I absolutely do. A huge amount of engineering to get these shader effects right, but the outcome will be that the platforms will look more like a fruit salad and less coherent. Companies that invested in React Native, Flutter, Tauri, or alternativ…

react nataive gets some design refreshes for free. its native.

But not these, afaik. RN only supports basic view types and composes them into controls. But these offer complete distinct controls. Using these in RN is possible, but usually via iOS-only plugins

Re: Steve Jobs would have fired everyone

#48

Post by terhechte »

adwawdawd wrote: post #8
terhechte wrote: post #6

The "it would have been different under Steve Jobs" trope is coming up every so often when Apple introduces a radical new feature. Oftentimes I don't agree but in this case I absolutely do. A huge amount of engineering to get these shader effects right, but the outcome will be that the platforms will look more like a fruit salad and less coherent. Companies that invested in React Native, Flutter, Tauri, or alternativ…

They are called Apple, why are you surprised about fruid salad? Additionally why would Apple be interested in making cross platform coherence easier? Just buy Apple if you want the cool design.

I agree, but I think they're not in the position anymore to enforce this. Years ago this would have been a valid move, but companies that switched to cross platform will not move back. It saves costs and adds velocity to just have one team for both platforms.

Re: Steve Jobs would have fired everyone

#49

Post by jmye »

PaulKeeble wrote: post #33
skwee357 wrote: post #29

I think it outlines a bigger problem we have in the tech industry: innovation for the sake of innovation. When you have an in-house design team, or development team, you will, inevitably, reach a point where your product is "ready": design was finalized, functionality is there, and aside from minor bug fixes, there is nothing else really to do. Then you ask yourself, what should you do with the in-house teams? The lo…

Its just fashions. UI's have been going through multiple phases of fashions where accessibility and basic function is often sacrificed to have a different look. Windows didn't need all the colour and style changes its gone through, neither has Android and neither did iOS. These aren't changes for a good reason they are just fashions. The longer I watch the tech industry the more I realise its going through these fash…

Nailed it. If you let your whole UI, in a consumer application, stagnate, you will lose. Your software could be fantastic, but someone else will build something nearly as good, paint it a “cool” color, and eat your lunch.

The idea that phones aren’t, for a huge number of people, fashion accessories, is really funny, and extremely IT-centric, to me. Look at the way Apple releases very visible, specific features for its Pro models - it’s all signaling. My phone is purple because one year that was the new color so everyone who saw your phone would know it was the new one.

(I say this also not taking away from the opinion that it’s prepping users and developers for something they’re going to bring out in two years - both things can be equally true.)

Re: Steve Jobs would have fired everyone

#50

Post by gandalfgreybeer »

anonymousiam wrote: post #36

I've been on the fence about whether or not I should upgrade my 2017 iPad Pro (which recently fell out of support, but is still getting critical patches). I'm thinking I'll just go with an Android tablet from here on. Any recommendations?

In the tablet space, nothing really comes close to iPads.
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