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Introducing stronger dependencies on systemd

blogs.gnome.org

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Re: Introducing stronger dependencies on systemd

#41

Post by pcpuser »

haileys wrote: post #39

This is a sensible move. systemd is a good piece of software, and foundational Linux infrastructure which by now is very widely deployed. I’ve been doing Linux a long time and my experience is that systemd is much more pleasant to work with than the brittle duct tape and shell script stuff which came before.

Agreed. I wonder how many people in this thread hating on systemd have actually tried to work with upstream. They are an extremely pleasant and welcoming community who are willing to work with you on the most trivial stuff.

Re: Introducing stronger dependencies on systemd

#42

Post by oneshtein »

n3storm wrote: post #20

For all worried check out xfce. It works, is light, is customizable, has gtk responsiveness (I find Qt click and drag and drop downs odd) Only downside maybe is no Wayland support yet.

Mate supports Wayland since Mate 1.28.

See https://wiki.mate-desktop.org/developers-corner/wayland-meso...

Quote:

> One of the most notable improvements is the enhanced support for Wayland, bringing us closer to a fully native MATE-Wayland experience. Several components have been updated to work seamlessly with Wayland, ensuring a more integrated and responsive desktop environment.

Re: Introducing stronger dependencies on systemd

#43

Post by jabiko »

I think this is a good move: it focuses on maintaining a single, well-tested code path while still offering guidance for those who want alternatives (see the section "So what should distros without systemd do?" in the article).

It's not making it impossible to run GNOME on non-systemd systems, but it shifts the responsibility of maintaining that support to the projects that are actually interested in it. I think ultimately this might lead to a better user experience since the people developing non-systemd support are also the ones using it.

Re: Introducing stronger dependencies on systemd

#44

Post by Scarblac »

bobowzki wrote: post #7
yolkedgeek wrote: post #4

[flagged]

What do you recommend instead?

I like Regolith ( https://regolith-desktop.com/ ), it's built on Gnome-session for its configuration screens, but otherwise runs a lightweight tiling window manager.

For my windows I only use keyboard shortcuts (no mouse) and full-screen windows (sometimes two half screen windows side by side), so I may be a bit weird.

Re: Introducing stronger dependencies on systemd

#45

Post by morsch »

yolkedgeek wrote: post #30
happymellon wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How were they holding X11 back? No one wanted to support it, not just Red Hat.

Read the news. That's why the maintainers forked it and are starting improvements on their own project. https://mail-index.netbsd.org/netbsd-users/2025/06/06/msg032... https://github.com/X11Libre/xserver

Previously discussed in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44217735

Re: Introducing stronger dependencies on systemd

#46

Post by ttctciyf »

yolkedgeek wrote: post #12
bobowzki wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you recommend instead?

With systemD, the alternatives have a curve because so much IBM money and monopolization has gone into it. But systems using OpenRC(alpine) or SysV(MX linux, Devuan) work great in my experience. there are other init systems like runit (void linux) also seem to work great too, I just haven't used them. As for desktop environments, the choice is very easy. Because there are simply better options. For normal users, I al…

I admit I'm an edge case, but last year I installed Slackware on my main desktop specifically to escape the clutches of systemd, and by god it feels great to have a working /etc/rc.d again!

I do use containerised solutions for a few things (e.g. conty[0] for Steam, and a couple of rocm containers for messing with ML things).

KDE is the default desktop and does everything I need. I haven't used gnome for a decade anyhow.

0: https://github.com/Kron4ek/Conty/

Re: Introducing stronger dependencies on systemd

#47

Post by imtringued »

bjourne wrote: post #18

This is the back-end plague which is everywhere in free software. The idea is that whatever "it" is, adding support for "it" is "just another back-end" . Take cairo for example, it has or had back-ends for gdk, win32, png, svg, html canvas, pdf, postscript, opengl, xlib, quartz, etc. Only a few of them are actually usable and support has been removed for several others over the years. The number of sound back-ends on…

The problem is that everyone is doing their own thing instead of coming up with a common standard. That's kinda why Wayland is so hated.

What people seem to be misunderstanding about systemd is that it is not encroaching and forcing itself upon distros. It's the opposite. It's solving problems faster than anyone else and thereby wins by default. If there was a competing project that did the same things systemd did (the problem is that you need a whole collection of projects that are poorly integrated with each other), then you could start talking about standardizing things, but as of right now, systemd is spiritually the new Xorg of Linux.

Re: Introducing stronger dependencies on systemd

#48

Post by henearkr »

yolkedgeek wrote: post #30
happymellon wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How were they holding X11 back? No one wanted to support it, not just Red Hat.

Read the news. That's why the maintainers forked it and are starting improvements on their own project. https://mail-index.netbsd.org/netbsd-users/2025/06/06/msg032... https://github.com/X11Libre/xserver

I love the idea to fork X11 if it can accelerate its development or maintenance, however in this precise case it looks like the developer who created the fork has questionable opinions about e.g. DEI, vaccines, etc, but more importantly it looks like he is willing to include references to his opinions inside the project (cf the README.md)...

So, it would be awesome if somebody would just go ahead and re-fork it removing just the controversial stuff.

Re: Introducing stronger dependencies on systemd

#49

Post by happymellon »

yolkedgeek wrote: post #30
happymellon wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How were they holding X11 back? No one wanted to support it, not just Red Hat.

Read the news. That's why the maintainers forked it and are starting improvements on their own project. https://mail-index.netbsd.org/netbsd-users/2025/06/06/msg032... https://github.com/X11Libre/xserver

That reads like someone having a breakdown.

Probably going to regret asking, but what is a "redskirt"?

> doesn't matter which country you're coming from, your politicial views, your race, your sex, your age, your food menu, whether you wear boots or heels, whether you're furry or fairy, Conan or McKay, comic character, a small furry creature from Alpha Centauri, or just an boring average person. Anybody's welcomed, who's interested in bringing X forward.

Whoh. So normally people who talk like this are far from "strong and stable", it's a call for "all lives matter". I wouldn't touch this racist heap.

[Edit] And redskirt is just a misogynistic play on Star Trek red shirts. This dev sounds delightful.

Re: Introducing stronger dependencies on systemd

#50

Post by fotomar »

sph wrote: post #40

I have yet to hear an argument against systemd which isn’t a variation of: - """bloat""" - I dislike Poettering. Remember pulseaudio? - a core user-space layer for modern applications that can’t only rely on the spartan kernel syscall API? Literally 1984. Given that systemd is good enough and is running on 99% of desktops and servers, I always find it hilarious to see how the vocal minority is overrepresented on this…

[flagged]
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