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Getting a Cease and Desist from Waffle House

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Re: Getting a Cease and Desist from Waffle House

#41

Post by JohnMakin »

xyst wrote: post #29
fkyoureadthedoc wrote: post #22

Why take the whole site down instead of just removing their logo?

The mere threat of legal action for most Americans means $$$. As a college student, probably broke as well. This person probably does not have the legal understanding or access to lawyers to guide him through it. Much easier to take it down rather than deal with potential legal ramifications. A half decent lawyer or even the "free" lawyer services at most universities probably would have advised just removing the "tr…

You ignore the cease and desist, they take you to court (still unlikely because they also incur cost they dont want). You don't need a lawyer to go to a courtroom, they will order you to take it down and then you do. They're very unlikely to sue for damages because the cost of their lawyers far exceed whatever 'damages' are in place here, which I would assume are close to zero.

Please don't fold immediately to this tired legal tactic.

Re: Getting a Cease and Desist from Waffle House

#43

Post by PhotonHunter »

JohnMakin wrote: post #40

Cease and desists are the equivalent of asking firmly but nicely in the legal world. They don't hold any legal bearing or obligate you to any sort of response. They are usually hoping you get intimidated into doing what they ask. You can always call their bluff and say 'no,' although I see in comments the OP neglected to mention they also patched/fixed the technique used to get this data so it probably was more of th…

Is it completely correct to say they have no legal bearing? As I understand things, they can be used to establish a date when someone was made aware of infringement, and that date can be used to start the clock on enhanced damages.

Re: Getting a Cease and Desist from Waffle House

#44

Post by rtkwe »

mcphage wrote: post #35

On one hand, yes, the author was using Waffle House's own data to populate the site. But on the other, Waffle House has no way of guaranteeing that remains the case, and they don't want their private APIs to be depended upon by a 3rd party site seen by thousands of people. So I guess I'm not surprised by their reaction. Still: it would be fun if it actually was a thing.

It's a trademark thing, brands are really protective of them because the rules around dilution are a bit murky so they err on the side of trying to stamp out any unauthorized use just to make it clear it's in use and protected so there's little chance of losing it because a court takes a different view of a time they let it slide.

Re: Getting a Cease and Desist from Waffle House

#45

Post by ShakataGaNai »

JohnMakin wrote: post #40

Cease and desists are the equivalent of asking firmly but nicely in the legal world. They don't hold any legal bearing or obligate you to any sort of response. They are usually hoping you get intimidated into doing what they ask. You can always call their bluff and say 'no,' although I see in comments the OP neglected to mention they also patched/fixed the technique used to get this data so it probably was more of th…

True. But he was using a variation of the Waffle House logo that their lawyers would argue would "confuse the average consumer", and he was using the "Waffle House" name in a domain. In something that was actually directly related to the real Waffle House. Unfortunately, their lawyers would have an easy time with that lawsuit.

If op had named it something different, and didn't use such a closely inspired logo, he probably could have kept it up. Or at least had a much stronger case of fair use. But this is always the problem with "fan appreciation" and our trademark system. In order for Waffle House to keep their trademark, they must enforce it. They cannot let a fan use/abuse it, or else it can get to the point where a judge can say it is been made generic (ex: escalator).

When I was young, I learned this lesson via a very scary letter from Warner Brothers. The lawyers aren't always trying to be dicks (though some clearly are), but they are paid to protect the brand. And someone registering a site with your brand name, putting up a logo very similar to your real logo.... is always 100% of the time going to get that C&D letter. And eventually a lawsuit if you fail to comply.

Re: Getting a Cease and Desist from Waffle House

#47

Post by 0cf8612b2e1e »

JohnMakin wrote: post #41
xyst wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mere threat of legal action for most Americans means $$$. As a college student, probably broke as well. This person probably does not have the legal understanding or access to lawyers to guide him through it. Much easier to take it down rather than deal with potential legal ramifications. A half decent lawyer or even the "free" lawyer services at most universities probably would have advised just removing the "tr…

You ignore the cease and desist, they take you to court (still unlikely because they also incur cost they dont want). You don't need a lawyer to go to a courtroom, they will order you to take it down and then you do. They're very unlikely to sue for damages because the cost of their lawyers far exceed whatever 'damages' are in place here, which I would assume are close to zero. Please don't fold immediately to this t…

And if they do sue for damages?

Feeling invincible is nice, but even low probability events can lead to financial ruin if someone chooses to make an example of you.

Re: Getting a Cease and Desist from Waffle House

#48

Post by DrillShopper »

dole wrote: post #38
shayway wrote: post #17

It's a shame this sort of thing leads to legal threats instead of job offers. Still, I wonder why the author didn't keep it up and just remove the branding - call it the "Waffle Home Index" or something.

this was massive at the time and imho what the internet was made for. strike while the iron's hot, lawyer up as much as possible fr

With what bankroll?

Re: Getting a Cease and Desist from Waffle House

#50

Post by pixl97 »

JohnMakin wrote: post #41
xyst wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mere threat of legal action for most Americans means $$$. As a college student, probably broke as well. This person probably does not have the legal understanding or access to lawyers to guide him through it. Much easier to take it down rather than deal with potential legal ramifications. A half decent lawyer or even the "free" lawyer services at most universities probably would have advised just removing the "tr…

You ignore the cease and desist, they take you to court (still unlikely because they also incur cost they dont want). You don't need a lawyer to go to a courtroom, they will order you to take it down and then you do. They're very unlikely to sue for damages because the cost of their lawyers far exceed whatever 'damages' are in place here, which I would assume are close to zero. Please don't fold immediately to this t…

>You don't need a lawyer to go to a courtroom

You need money and free time to go to a courtroom.

>They're very unlikely to sue for damages because the cost of their lawyers far exceed whatever 'damages' are in place here,

This is a not a smart thing to do without legal console. There are plenty of very large, very wealthy companies that love to play SLAPP.

Your suggestion of FAFO isn't a great idea.

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