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Google is burying the web alive

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Re: Google is burying the web alive

#41

Post by Spivak »

pphysch wrote: post #11
romaaeterna wrote: post #3

As someone who remembers what the web was like 25 years ago, I have a feeling that they're burying a corpse.

Yes, a corpse killed by Facebook, Reddit, Discord and other closed platforms.

Does it actually matter that Discord is closed or would the problem still exist if Matrix won and the content contained within was nonetheless still not indexable by search engines and communities were invite only?

Because the fact that Discord is flourishing is I think a direct result of it not being a part of the giant amalgamated omniplatform indexed by search engines. Being shielded from the masses is the point. There aren't megaphones in small private communities where the social dynamics of repeat interactions are in play. People aren't competing to say the most outrageous rage-bait for engagement.

Re: Google is burying the web alive

#42

Post by Rastonbury »

What I want from Google is showing me results (not summaries) from sources that I tell it from natural language. If I know I am going to search for a topic I know is going to be filled with a ton of SEO garbage, I default to chatgpt to get sources for me, unfortunately I still do not trust chatgpt to have done a thorough job but sometimes I can't be bother to trawl through blogspam.

The reason why chatgpt and perplextty are stealing queries from them is because Search has become so bad.

Re: Google is burying the web alive

#43

Post by NikolaNovak »

TonyTrapp wrote: post #26
ninth_ant wrote: post #23

Implicit in this article is the idea that you have to use Google, and that Google Search equals “the web”. I’ll be the boring nerd, I guess, who has to be the one to say there are many other search engines out there. If you don’t like Google (I don’t), or don’t like where they are moving their products (I don’t) — please use a competing search engine. I’ve used DuckDuckGo for years and I don’t miss anything about Goo…

When "to google" has literally become a verb in several languages, you know it's not going to be that easy to convince literally hundreds of millions of people to use something different. For many unsavvy people, Google is and continues to be their window into the web, and they wouldn't even know they can have it another way.

It's a seemingly patronizing joke meme, but I've repeatedly seen many of my relatives type in e.g. "Facebook.com" into Google search box, and then blindly click the first entry (which is completely at the mercy of being hijacked/prioritized based on either who's paying more money to Google, or latest fun extension / glitchy website they've installed).

I have not yet found a working approach to alter that behaviour - obligatory XKCD reference [0]

0: https://xkcd.com/763/

Re: Google is burying the web alive

#44

Post by mattferderer »

jameslk wrote: post #29

Business idea: build a firewall for AI crawlers that variably gives them access to customer’s sites based on traffic they send. The more traffic they send, the more they are allowed to crawl.

Cloudflare has been talking about this for a while albeit slightly different than your take - https://blog.cloudflare.com/ai-labyrinth/

Re: Google is burying the web alive

#45

Post by water-data-dude »

TonyTrapp wrote: post #26
ninth_ant wrote: post #23

Implicit in this article is the idea that you have to use Google, and that Google Search equals “the web”. I’ll be the boring nerd, I guess, who has to be the one to say there are many other search engines out there. If you don’t like Google (I don’t), or don’t like where they are moving their products (I don’t) — please use a competing search engine. I’ve used DuckDuckGo for years and I don’t miss anything about Goo…

When "to google" has literally become a verb in several languages, you know it's not going to be that easy to convince literally hundreds of millions of people to use something different. For many unsavvy people, Google is and continues to be their window into the web, and they wouldn't even know they can have it another way.

I wish Duck Duck Go was fewer syllables so I could try to force it into conversations as a verb.

Re: Google is burying the web alive

#46

Post by nicbou »

I can weigh in on this. I run a small information website (https://allaboutberlin.com). My traffic has been growing steadily for 7 years, but now its down 30-ish percent year on year. From what I'm hearing, my competitors (and friends) are having it worse.

My main mission is to put new information on the internet. It's harder to do this if AI destroys the economics of it. It's also harder without an audience who provides feedback and encouragement. Having all information mediated by two companies isn't just digging into my revenue, it's killing the fun.

The unfortunate side effect is that it made me focus more on business and less on serving my readers. I'm working on health insurance stuff when I would rather work on a citizenship guide. It's also sad to see all the nuance stripped from my carefully chosen words.

It sucks, honestly. I am being replaced by AI, but I am still supposed to go experience the real world and translate it into LLM training material. In the end, there still is a thinking, feeling human being doing the essential work. He's just not getting paid anymore.

Re: Google is burying the web alive

#47

Post by bamboozled »

ninth_ant wrote: post #23

Implicit in this article is the idea that you have to use Google, and that Google Search equals “the web”. I’ll be the boring nerd, I guess, who has to be the one to say there are many other search engines out there. If you don’t like Google (I don’t), or don’t like where they are moving their products (I don’t) — please use a competing search engine. I’ve used DuckDuckGo for years and I don’t miss anything about Goo…

I used DuckDuckGo for 3 years, the only thing I found it useful for was the g! bang, in my opinion it wasn’t a good search engine.

Re: Google is burying the web alive

#48

Post by WalterBright »

mouse_ wrote: post #37
ninth_ant wrote: post #23

Implicit in this article is the idea that you have to use Google, and that Google Search equals “the web”. I’ll be the boring nerd, I guess, who has to be the one to say there are many other search engines out there. If you don’t like Google (I don’t), or don’t like where they are moving their products (I don’t) — please use a competing search engine. I’ve used DuckDuckGo for years and I don’t miss anything about Goo…

I find it extremely challenging to believe you actually think that. I can't even host my own email anymore without all of my messages getting filtered as spam, because if your email service doesn't play nice with Google, then you might as well not exist. Not to mention youtube, adsense, Android (Google is trying to kill AOSP to sink their claws more deeply into Android in light of the recent antitrust suits), Google…

I've been using a private email server for decades now, but it's become clear that none of the email I send using it arrives at its destination. I can receive email with them, but not send.

Re: Google is burying the web alive

#49

Post by pixl97 »

gspencley wrote: post #9
almusdives wrote: post #6

I get why this is problematic for industries that depend on high traffic for ad revenue etc, but is bad for websites who are actually trying to market services that provide tangible value? Like if I’m searching for a dry cleaner in Glasgow, if I end up with the same provider, I don't care (and neither does the dry cleaner) whether I find them through traditional links or an AI-mediated search?

Feels like more curation than we had before. My wife and I recently bought a commercial space and have been trying to find contractors for renovation projects. It has kind of blown us away at how unresponsive most have been. Like, we'll reach out them ... wait DAYS, sometimes they get back to us ... maybe a week later they'll come for a site visit to give us a quote and then we need to keep following up with them ...…

>Like, we'll reach out them ... wait DAYS, sometimes they get back to us ... maybe a week later they'll come for a site visit to give us a quote and then we need to keep following up with them ... just to get a quote.

Jeesh these companies are dumb... they could be selling referrals to other businesses but are instead dropping them on the floor.

Re: Google is burying the web alive

#50

Post by nicbou »

AriedK wrote: post #5

So how long do we have until companies can pay to be in the system prompt to be recommended for certain queries?

Those AIs are operating at a loss. Sooner or later they will seize enough market share for investors to demand returns.
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