A Secret Trove of Rare Guitars Heads to the Met • Hacker News Board

Re: A Secret Trove of Rare Guitars Heads to the Met

#41

Post by tarentel » Wed, May 21, 2025, 2:15 PM UTC

mrob wrote: post #16

atoav wrote: post #14

As a guitar player (20+ years) and a audio engineer/electrical engineer/dsp programmer one thing that really keeps baffling me about the field of guitar playing is how much myths about what affects the sound in which way exists. With people trying to get the sounds of their stars by buying products that were made in the 60s and somehow assuming the wild quality fluctuations and effects of the recording chain during t…

Jim Lill has several excellent videos on Youtube testing guitar tone myths: https://www.youtube.com/@JimLill/videos The "air guitar" demonstration in his first video memorably shows that the wood doesn't matter. One non-obvious thing that does affect the sound is the type of pick (a.k.a. plectrum). Both the shape and the stiffness of the pick affect the sound, and playing with fingers sounds different too. I don't se…

I play electric bass and this comes up a lot in that community. Besides using different picks where you pick/pluck the strings also greatly affects the tone, whether it's right over the picks up, towards the bridge, near the neck, etc.

Also when using a pick, the angle at which you strike the strings with the pick affects the tone. Such as keeping the pick flat versus angled to the strings. I don't really know how to explain it well in words hopefully that makes sense.

Re: A Secret Trove of Rare Guitars Heads to the Met

#42

Post by dfxm12 » Wed, May 21, 2025, 2:28 PM UTC

te_chris wrote: post #23

WorkerBee28474 wrote: post #4

> In the spring of 2027, the museum will open a permanent gallery devoted to the evolution and cultural impact of the American guitar. This is fun, it looks like they have many important prototype and early production guitars.

They’ve already got an incredible collection in their instruments section. Amazing early Martin’s etc

For people interested in guitars, seeing how things get made, or museums related to guitars, I can't recommend the Martin factory tour enough in Nazareth, PA. You really get up close to all aspects of the guitar making process and can talk to some people while they're working. You can also see guitars from people like Johnny Cash to Ed Sheeran.

Re: A Secret Trove of Rare Guitars Heads to the Met

#43

Post by criddell » Wed, May 21, 2025, 2:31 PM UTC

cpursley wrote: post #40

criddell wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Justin Sandercoe (Justin Guitar on YouTube) did a series[1] where he bought the cheapest electric guitar on Amazon (£60 I think) and then had a guitar tech friend of his do a complete setup. Many times through the series both Justin and the tech remarked at how good the £60 guitar is. The problem with buying an inexpensive guitar is mostly psychological. Do you really want to pay for a $200 setup on a $100 guitar? Pe…

Toms amps were anything but budget. Electric guitar tone is 75% a good tube amp with rest being pickups and intonation.

The amp in that photo is a 20 watt solid state practice amp. Those usually aren't very expensive.

Re: A Secret Trove of Rare Guitars Heads to the Met

#44

Post by dfxm12 » Wed, May 21, 2025, 2:36 PM UTC

atoav wrote: post #14

As a guitar player (20+ years) and a audio engineer/electrical engineer/dsp programmer one thing that really keeps baffling me about the field of guitar playing is how much myths about what affects the sound in which way exists. With people trying to get the sounds of their stars by buying products that were made in the 60s and somehow assuming the wild quality fluctuations and effects of the recording chain during t…

In each hobby you will find people that are in it for the gear more than anything.

Playing guitar and collecting gear are two different hobbies. This is not the only hobby like this. The people who play magic: the gathering are not necessarily the people who collect MTG cards for the sake of collecting. There's some overlap, yeah, but these are still distinct hobbies.

Re: A Secret Trove of Rare Guitars Heads to the Met

#45

Post by atoav » Wed, May 21, 2025, 2:42 PM UTC

tarentel wrote: post #41

mrob wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jim Lill has several excellent videos on Youtube testing guitar tone myths: https://www.youtube.com/@JimLill/videos The "air guitar" demonstration in his first video memorably shows that the wood doesn't matter. One non-obvious thing that does affect the sound is the type of pick (a.k.a. plectrum). Both the shape and the stiffness of the pick affect the sound, and playing with fingers sounds different too. I don't se…

I play electric bass and this comes up a lot in that community. Besides using different picks where you pick/pluck the strings also greatly affects the tone, whether it's right over the picks up, towards the bridge, near the neck, etc. Also when using a pick, the angle at which you strike the strings with the pick affects the tone. Such as keeping the pick flat versus angled to the strings. I don't really know how to…

Yeah that also makes sense. String tension/diameter/length/hardness matters a lot, so does the "striking" technique and position, pick material, if you play with fingers, whterher your skin is smooth or you have hard skin on these fingers (I heard Less Claypool (Primus) puts super glue on his fingers before each concert).

This all makes sense. The farther you go away from the vibrating string the less things matter. Whether your guitar is made of garbage wood or from the finest tropical one, doesn't matter one bit in an electrical instrument, as the wood vibration just dissipates more or less energy. So if you don't want to dissipate energy (to add more sustain) just use the hardest, stiffest material possible like in a grand piano and you end up with a cast iron body. The same is used in mills and similar machines to stop precision manufacturing tools from becoming inaccurate due to vibration, so we know it works.

In the world of popular guitar magazines the "folk wisdom" is literally the polar opposite of what happens in the real world: They say, you can feel the wood vibrating, that means it has a lot of sustain. If the wood vibrates that means energy that should be in the string is now in the body. If you want your string to sustain as long as possible, you'd need to keep all the enery in the string...

I love playing guitar (and bass for that matter), but the amount of unchecked bullshit advice floating around is stunning. If you want to sound a certain way, this bullshit gets into your way as a beginner and that is sad.

Re: A Secret Trove of Rare Guitars Heads to the Met

#46

Post by dfxm12 » Wed, May 21, 2025, 2:44 PM UTC

tarentel wrote: post #41

mrob wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jim Lill has several excellent videos on Youtube testing guitar tone myths: https://www.youtube.com/@JimLill/videos The "air guitar" demonstration in his first video memorably shows that the wood doesn't matter. One non-obvious thing that does affect the sound is the type of pick (a.k.a. plectrum). Both the shape and the stiffness of the pick affect the sound, and playing with fingers sounds different too. I don't se…

I play electric bass and this comes up a lot in that community. Besides using different picks where you pick/pluck the strings also greatly affects the tone, whether it's right over the picks up, towards the bridge, near the neck, etc. Also when using a pick, the angle at which you strike the strings with the pick affects the tone. Such as keeping the pick flat versus angled to the strings. I don't really know how to…

I saw a note on sheet music (for guitar) like "ATTACK the strings". I wasn't totally sure what that meant. I reached out to the composer. He described it as being about the angle of the pick in his mind (but still wanted to leave it open to interpretation).

There's a lot to playing music that is hard to transcribe onto paper.

Re: A Secret Trove of Rare Guitars Heads to the Met

#47

Post by atoav » Wed, May 21, 2025, 2:49 PM UTC

lrmunoz wrote: post #18

atoav wrote: post #14

As a guitar player (20+ years) and a audio engineer/electrical engineer/dsp programmer one thing that really keeps baffling me about the field of guitar playing is how much myths about what affects the sound in which way exists. With people trying to get the sounds of their stars by buying products that were made in the 60s and somehow assuming the wild quality fluctuations and effects of the recording chain during t…

What is a "a 200 Euro guitar and a 250 Euro amplifier" setup that you recommend? Honest question.

That guitar: https://www.thomann.de/de/harley_benton_hbt1952.htm>

And that amplifier: https://www.thomann.de/de/harley_benton_tube15_celestion.htm>

The amp is based on the Monoprice Stage Right 15W which is a clone of the Laney Cub 12R which is losely inspired by the Vox AC15. So you get a decent 15W tube amp with a real spring reverb for 260 Euros. There is not a lot with that amount of bang for the buck out there.

If you're playing in a loud band it might be a little underpowered, but it is perfect for playing at home, and if you want it to be any wilder than it is, just use pedals in front of it.

Re: A Secret Trove of Rare Guitars Heads to the Met

#48

Post by danielvaughn » Wed, May 21, 2025, 2:58 PM UTC

ckemere wrote: post #32

The Met is a serious place. Apparently they developed a laser-based accelerated aging system so that they could measure (and subsequently monitor) how the finishes on these guitars change due to exposure. Also crazy environmental control in the context of millions of people visiting, with the goal of having the instruments preserved for posterity. The curators are an unusual mix of artist, scientist and engineer. The…

When I lived in NYC I applied to work there several times. Never got an interview but would’ve been an incredible experience, since I was an artist prior to becoming an engineer.

Also the Met is just incredible. It’s my favorite thing to do in the city. I’m not sure if this exhibit is the same one that I saw, but I remember seeing an exhibit of old instruments, like guitars from the 19th century and even older than that iirc.

There’s also an amazing weapons exhibit that I believe is permanent. Some eccentric rich dude collected them over a century ago, and when he died it was donated to the museum. Everything from royal armor to samurai swords. Very cool.

Re: A Secret Trove of Rare Guitars Heads to the Met

#49

Post by atoav » Wed, May 21, 2025, 2:59 PM UTC

Supernaut wrote: post #31

atoav wrote: post #14

As a guitar player (20+ years) and a audio engineer/electrical engineer/dsp programmer one thing that really keeps baffling me about the field of guitar playing is how much myths about what affects the sound in which way exists. With people trying to get the sounds of their stars by buying products that were made in the 60s and somehow assuming the wild quality fluctuations and effects of the recording chain during t…

> you can get extremely good (studio quality) sounds with a 200 Euro guitar and a 250 Euro amplifier Yes, exactly. Does a guitar that costs €1200 sound and (equally importantly) feel even better? Yes, in my opinion - but with modern instruments, diminishing returns do set in quite quickly. I noted this comment from the guy in the article: "All the guitars they made after [1964] were junk.” Utter nonsense. I can't sta…

That was my point. I play a US Strat, that now costs more than 1200 Euros. The guitar I got for my family member plays just as good. And that isn't because my Strat plays bad, I play that instrument since 15 years and it is setup correctly etc.

That is because the new cheap guitars can be (depending on the manufacturer) really good nowadays. I have to admit I felt a bit of envy with my family member, because during my youth this was a fucking struggle, with weird Squires that had all kind of problems and twisty necks and whatnot.

Of course the cheap guitar doesn't add the placebo effect of having a guitar with the real Fender logo to it. And if you're struggling to get out good sounds you might feel that the only thing that will make you sound better is that Fender logo. Probably everybody goes through that stage at some point during their instrument-playing. But as of now I am good enough of a guitar/bass player that I stopped caring about brands for the most part. There is big brands with shit products and small brands with good stuff. Brands do not matter nearly as much as the press or guitar snobs say.

Re: A Secret Trove of Rare Guitars Heads to the Met

#50

Post by atoav » Wed, May 21, 2025, 3:01 PM UTC

jhpacker wrote: post #39

Supernaut wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you can get extremely good (studio quality) sounds with a 200 Euro guitar and a 250 Euro amplifier Yes, exactly. Does a guitar that costs €1200 sound and (equally importantly) feel even better? Yes, in my opinion - but with modern instruments, diminishing returns do set in quite quickly. I noted this comment from the guy in the article: "All the guitars they made after [1964] were junk.” Utter nonsense. I can't sta…

I agree with your take. I've definitely owned and played some excellent sub-$1000 guitars, but at the lower price points things it can be frustrating to deal with things like low-quality tuners, improperly shielded components, etc. I'd say 90% is about pickups, strings, and frets. Most of the 60s guitars I've played were not great tbh.

The channel I mentioned measured the internal cabling of an 60s Les Paul and it had a WILD capacitance swing changing with humidity (more than 100% of the orignal value). Meaning the capacitance-induceed resonant frequency of the guitar would shift strongly over the course of a gig.

Needless to say, this is probably not a thing anybody is looking for.