Get a look on the track topology on openrailwaymap:
https://www.openrailwaymap.org/?style=gauge&lat=62.774837258...
Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge
41–50 of 465 posts
Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge
#42> will cost billions of euros, affect more than 9,200 km of track, and take decades How is a change like this going to be implemented? E.g. are they going to mainly update some tracks everywhere (and have two systems running in parallel), or all tracks in selected areas (and have passengers change), or something else? Was there a comparable large scale rail infrastructure change in some other country?
Currently the leading plan is to build another narrower track alongside the existing ones (so the old trains can keep operating), but it is still in the planning phase. [1] I am not convinced this project is ever going to pay for itself. I feel like you could move cargo from one train to another somewhere near the border for quite a long time with the money it is going to take to convert the entire rail network. Finl…
> I am not convinced this project is ever going to pay for itself.
The subtext is not economic: it's "in the event of being invaded by Russia, can we minimize the delays in moving NATO materiel by rail to the front while denying Russia equally easy access to the rails".
Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge
#43> will cost billions of euros, affect more than 9,200 km of track, and take decades How is a change like this going to be implemented? E.g. are they going to mainly update some tracks everywhere (and have two systems running in parallel), or all tracks in selected areas (and have passengers change), or something else? Was there a comparable large scale rail infrastructure change in some other country?
In Spain it's ongoing, very slowly, since the first international gauge high-speed rail line started operation in 1992.
It's a slow and quite annoying process. For example, to reach my region, trains from Madrid have to change gauge because my region still has the old one. Apart from spending around 10 minutes doing this, this has caused a lot of problems because it essentially means there is a single model of 300 km/h train that can make it here (others don't support gauge change) and to top it, said model turned out to be highly unreliable. This created a lot of political tension because of course we wanted 300 km/h trains like other regions, but now we're stuck with these lemons and our regional politicians push for gauge change, but the national government doesn't want to do it yet as it affects freight trains.
I hope at some point we get the change done in the whole national network, although generally it moves at a glacial pace. It makes sense to have seamless connection with France and the rest of Europe, and to be able to use the same trains everyone else does.
Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge
#44> will cost billions of euros, affect more than 9,200 km of track, and take decades How is a change like this going to be implemented? E.g. are they going to mainly update some tracks everywhere (and have two systems running in parallel), or all tracks in selected areas (and have passengers change), or something else? Was there a comparable large scale rail infrastructure change in some other country?
In 1886 the USA switched the rail gauge of the southern states to standard gauge. Most of the work was done over two days.
http://southern.railfan.net/ties/1966/66-8/gauge.html
Obviously doing this today would be a much more complicated affair, considering the much higher speeds and weights of contemporary trains.
Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge
#45> will cost billions of euros, affect more than 9,200 km of track, and take decades How is a change like this going to be implemented? E.g. are they going to mainly update some tracks everywhere (and have two systems running in parallel), or all tracks in selected areas (and have passengers change), or something else? Was there a comparable large scale rail infrastructure change in some other country?
I think you can ”upgrade” the tracks to use three rails so you can handle both track widths. Also there are trains with adjustabe axle widths.
Part of the motivation is removing the Russian gauge rails such that they can't be used in the case of invasion, so I don't think dual-gauge is really an option here.
Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge
#46Get a look on the track topology on openrailwaymap: https://www.openrailwaymap.org/?style=gauge&lat=62.774837258...
That's only the main tracks. There's a huge amount not seen on that map.
Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge
#47Get a look on the track topology on openrailwaymap: https://www.openrailwaymap.org/?style=gauge&lat=62.774837258...
That's very interesting. I wonder why Spain is different than the rest of Europe, given it's connected by land.
It makes more sense for islands such as Ireland to retain their old gauge.
Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think you can ”upgrade” the tracks to use three rails so you can handle both track widths. Also there are trains with adjustabe axle widths.
You’d need four rails, a 9 cm separation isn’t enough to fit two side by side. This solution has been ruled out as technically infeasible (I don’t even want to think about what the switches would look like…) Adjustable-gauge rolling stock has also been ruled out as incompatible with the Finnish climate. The most (only?) feasible way to do it is to “simply” build entirely new standard-gauge track next to existing trac…
Adjustable-gauge are used in Switzerland for a mountain line (Montreux-Interlaken) all through the year. I have never seen temperature issue mentioned.
https://www.gpx.swiss/en/stories/technology (the video is rather cool)
Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge
#49Conversion to a narrower gauge should be a fairly straightforward process, unless concrete sleepers are in use. New axles or outright replacement of trucks shouldn't take multiple years of effort.
We did such things in the US in month long long ago.
Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Was there a comparable large scale rail infrastructure change in some other country? Baltic states attempted this (project Rail Baltica). Lots of EU money were spent with no visible result. I guess, several people in Baltic states became super rich, but in terms of rail infrastructure nothing was done.
Progress has been made and is ongoing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_Baltica#Project_progress
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