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I Want to Love Linux. It Doesn't Love Me Back

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Re: I Want to Love Linux. It Doesn't Love Me Back

#41
post #26

In the 2000s, a video of Nelson Mandela explaining "Ubuntu" was included in every iso[1]: "A traveler through a country would stop at a village, and he didn't have to ask for food or for water. Once he stops, the people give him food, entertain him. That is one aspect of Ubuntu, but it will have various aspects. Ubuntu does not mean that people should not enrich themselves. The question therefore is: Are you going to…

The big commercial distros hit a common failure mode for open source projects. There's a lot of money in cloud, which means there are a lot of vendors that want to extend things in ways that make the vendors' products relevant. Those vendors end up being the ones that fund future devlopment work, so they control the direction of the ecosystem for the projects they rely on (instead of users / hobbyists / hardware vend…

Some analysis of the RHEL situation here, sounds like Conservancy thinks that RedHat are mostly "probably not violating the GPL":

https://sfconservancy.org/blog/2023/jun/23/rhel-gpl-analysis...

I think RedHat's theory is that the GPL doesn't entitle you to updates or support, so restricting them can't be considered an additional GPL restriction.

You could say that without the updates, RHEL is not fit for purpose, and therefore you should be entitled to them. Sounds like a complicated legal argument to have though.

I agree that RedHat are certainly not ethical actors in the FOSS community though.

Re: I Want to Love Linux. It Doesn't Love Me Back

#42

There's a bunch of Linux distros made by/for the visually impaired, based on Ubuntu MATE, Fedora, or Debian. I wonder what the author's take is on these. Presumably they'll have those pain points fixed out of the box? Accessible Coconut, MATE based: https://zendalona.com/accessible-coconut/ Vojtux, Fedora based (you'll have to make your own image, don't see a prebuilt ISO): https://github.com/vojtapolasek/vojtux Emma…

The author seems to not like such distros:

> Not with fragile scripts or one-person distros

As a long-term strategy, such focused distros aren't the best idea. Derivative distros often have single developers, or smaller teams, making them vulnerable to disappearing. Its usually better to get all the changes needed into upstream projects, so that all desktops/distros are more accessible by default, and then contribute to testing/fixing accessibility in independent/major distros, so that all the downstream ones are more accessible by default.

The author prefers NixOS as a solution though, so each individual controls exactly what is on their system so they can roll back if something breaks and add their own tweaks. Eventually that just results in the one-person distro scenario though.

Re: I Want to Love Linux. It Doesn't Love Me Back

#44
As always, framing the problem as a "Linux" problem really makes it difficult to properly discuss it. If I understand the article correctly, Linux actually is accessible enough. The problem is that Fedora Workstation, Ubuntu etc are not. But if the actual problem is that Fedora WS is not accessible enough, then you can actually start iterating the things that do not work and maybe even think about how that can actually be fixed.

But the "Linux desktop ecosystem" is a too fluffy thing to even be able to discuss in any coherent way.

Re: I Want to Love Linux. It Doesn't Love Me Back

#45
I was misfortunate enough to be born in 1979 and was also just old enough to be cognizant and tangentially involved during major computing/communications epochs. I was around for when personal computing proliferated down to family homes, and no longer just in the homes of computing enthusiasts building their own 8-bit computers. I was pre-teen/teen when the World Wide Web got huge, I was around for the jumps from 8-bit computing, to 16-bit, to 32-bit and, of course, 64-bit. As a kid we had an Apple ][, and a Mac XL (as well as a Commodore 64 and a Nintendo Entertainment System). Everything but the NES made it into my bedroom (my stepfather loved that NES!). I read all the manuals and books I could, I saw War Games, bought a modulator/demodulator with my own money, and discovered BBSes.

Man, what a preamble! What does this have to do with Linux? I first got into Linux when I was using OS/2 as my main OS. A good friend of mine (who got me into OS/2) also got me into Linux, specifically Slackware, in the early 1990s. He was 10 or so years older than me and worked at a computer store and taught me everything about computing that I had not learned myself.

Linux back then was HARD. The prerequisite being you had to be a massive computer nerd to even read the documentation! Linux was really not user friendly at all. The process of "installing" Linux wasn't done in an hour, an afternoon, or even a day. It was a continual process over weeks really. Editing this config file here, compiling this program there (we had no package management and fat binaries were rare). Once all that was done, you had all your hardware working, and the programs you wanted running and life was good. Until the install got borked by the result of a power outage in your apartment building. Fun times. It was a massive undertaking and you learned while you installed it. Your only support was, in many cases, confusing and poorly written documentation. You could go to the Newsgroup or mailing list and get some suggestions though. Many of the people offering "support" were very rude and unsocial neck beards who loved to gate keep and were very good at discouraging people from joining the Linux community. Luckily I had my ThinkPad running OS/2 Warp 3 (later 4) to email, use FTP, surf the web and read my Usenet newsgroups while I was learning how to use Slackware.

Linux wasn't about it being easy, it was about it NOT being a Microsoft Product. Microsoft's predatory, unethical and flat out illegal business practices (in some cases) was consuming the entire computing world and stifling innovation: Linux was the answer, it was simply NOT MICROSOFT.

Now here we are in 2025. Last night I installed Debian 12 on a recently acquired ThinkPad Yoga S1. It is a 2-in-1 Laptop/Tablet hybrid with touch and pen screen. Everything worked out-of-the-box. No issues. The tablet features, everything works. The entire process took about 15 minutes.

There are more Linux distributions out there than we have teeth in our heads. If you need support there are variety of options out there for you, but you probably won't need it if all you want to do is word processing or watching YouTube.

If you don't like one distro, try another until you find one you like, or change up from the default software in the chosen distro and pick different software to install. Linux is incredibly user friendly now. You're not dropped at bash prompt and told "good luck" anymore.

A good video here on how it used to be: https://youtu.be/8tHBZkYzM4k?si=RKEFQ6lLb9Xyqlgt

Now it is time for my nap. I hear we are getting tapioca pudding for desert!

Re: I Want to Love Linux. It Doesn't Love Me Back

#46
post #38

"Improvements" to some software designed to damage them?

exactly! red hat is a huge “contributor” to the “linux ecosystem”, but those contributions are mostly regressions. as the article states, gnome circa 2010 was stable and complete. gnome today is one breakage after the next—even if your vision is 20/20. don’t even get me started on wayland! or pulse. or systemd.

Re: I Want to Love Linux. It Doesn't Love Me Back

#47

I was misfortunate enough to be born in 1979 and was also just old enough to be cognizant and tangentially involved during major computing/communications epochs. I was around for when personal computing proliferated down to family homes, and no longer just in the homes of computing enthusiasts building their own 8-bit computers. I was pre-teen/teen when the World Wide Web got huge, I was around for the jumps from 8-b…

Are you blind or using Orca to interact with your computer? If the answer is no, then your recent experience with Debian is not particularly relevant to what the article is talking about, since you obviously wouldn't have run in to any of the issues discussed.

Re: I Want to Love Linux. It Doesn't Love Me Back

#48
After reading this post I've just installed Orca (I already had speech-dipatcher installed and fully working in my vts (ttys)) on this Linux Debian cutting-edge rolling release that I use for years now... And it is working greatly here (In Emacs, browser and everything else); My ricing setup is: Linux Debian Siduction Distro plus StumpWM... Could you test this setup in your PC/Lap? NOTE: I do not use Gnome/Kde DEs (at maximum, I maintain XFCE4 here for others who do not know how to use StumpWM.

https://siduction.org/

https://github.com/stumpwm/stumpwm

And my laptop here is a very old Dell-Vostro 3500 running a Intel Pentium CPU...

Re: I Want to Love Linux. It Doesn't Love Me Back

#49
post #41
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The big commercial distros hit a common failure mode for open source projects. There's a lot of money in cloud, which means there are a lot of vendors that want to extend things in ways that make the vendors' products relevant. Those vendors end up being the ones that fund future devlopment work, so they control the direction of the ecosystem for the projects they rely on (instead of users / hobbyists / hardware vend…

Some analysis of the RHEL situation here, sounds like Conservancy thinks that RedHat are mostly "probably not violating the GPL": https://sfconservancy.org/blog/2023/jun/23/rhel-gpl-analysis... I think RedHat's theory is that the GPL doesn't entitle you to updates or support, so restricting them can't be considered an additional GPL restriction. You could say that without the updates, RHEL is not fit for purpose, and…

Money talks, I guess. Two of those companies are bad actors in this space (google, with the android rug pull, and user abusing software built on open source, and aws, the repeat open source business killer):

https://sfconservancy.org/sponsors/

Re: I Want to Love Linux. It Doesn't Love Me Back

#50
post #49
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some analysis of the RHEL situation here, sounds like Conservancy thinks that RedHat are mostly "probably not violating the GPL": https://sfconservancy.org/blog/2023/jun/23/rhel-gpl-analysis... I think RedHat's theory is that the GPL doesn't entitle you to updates or support, so restricting them can't be considered an additional GPL restriction. You could say that without the updates, RHEL is not fit for purpose, and…

Money talks, I guess. Two of those companies are bad actors in this space (google, with the android rug pull, and user abusing software built on open source, and aws, the repeat open source business killer): https://sfconservancy.org/sponsors/

Considering who Conservancy are, that is very unlikely. They are the main organisation doing GPL compliance work these days. Everyone else either opposes enforcement, or doesn't have the resources to do it, or does it but doesn't talk about it.

https://sfconservancy.org/copyleft-compliance/

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