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Memory-safe sudo to become the default in Ubuntu

trifectatech.org

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Re: Memory-safe sudo to become the default in Ubuntu

#41

Post by hedora »

i80and wrote: post #34
Analemma_ wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A little while ago I realized with a start that it's been years since I've heard anyone angrily insist on calling it "GNU/Linux", when that was constant background noise during the Slashdot era. One of those old fights that just faded away, I guess.

Oh yeah, I got to meet Stallman at a book signing when I was like 17, and like an idiot happened to wear a "Linux" shirt. I genuinely hadn't thought of this point of contention beforehand, but oof he did not care for that.

I got him to imply I was being cheap!

Re: Memory-safe sudo to become the default in Ubuntu

#42

Post by jvanderbot »

charcircuit wrote: post #27
MajesticHobo2 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but now the vector for privilege escalation will have to be a logic bug in memory-safe sudo instead of either a memory corruption (see CVE-2021-3156) or a logic bug. It’s hard not to see this as a major improvement.

Being a setuid binary means that sudo also suffers from attacks where an attacker runs `sudo ./malware` and then convinces the user to authenticate. Depending on how sudo authenticates phishing attacks or password reuse from another breach can be used to escalate privileges.

Those will also have to be fixed/considered, but do not detract from the contribution of removing memory safety bugs which may enable exploits.

Re: Memory-safe sudo to become the default in Ubuntu

#43

Post by ziddoap »

Ygg2 wrote: post #18
homefree wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> The religious element of rust programmers Yeah. I too, hate the Rust Evangelically Orthodox Later Day Christians. Oh, wait... You're serious. What is religious about rewriting tools in Rust? Isn't that what most programmers do for fun and learning? Is it any more religious than worshiping Alan Kay or Dijkstra? > It makes me wonder how much is motivated by stuff other than what’s actually the best outcome. Looks in…

>What is religious about rewriting tools in Rust?

"Religious" isn't being used to refer to people rewriting tools in Rust.

It's used to refer to people zealously commenting on message boards that every single tool ever built should be rewritten in Rust, and if you aren't rewriting your tool in Rust, you're an idiot.

Re: Memory-safe sudo to become the default in Ubuntu

#44

Post by XorNot »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #22
XorNot wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Removing LDAP is a huge problem for the more important sudo deployments though: centralized management of permissions is kind of a vital function.

Debian is currently in the process of dropping the direct LDAP support in sudo, in favor of sssd. From sudo's NEWS.Debian.gz: > In practice, there are few installations that use sudo-ldap. Most installations that use LDAP as a directory service and sudo have now opted for sssd, sssd-ldap and libsss-sudo. > The Debian sudo team recommends the use of libsss-sudo for new installations and the migration of existing insta…

Ah that makes more sense.

Re: Memory-safe sudo to become the default in Ubuntu

#45

Post by CooCooCaCha »

homefree wrote: post #11
ndegruchy wrote: post #6

Seems like the trifecta group is /just/ about migrating tools to rust? Am I understanding that right? I don't have a problem with it, specifically. Seems odd that they don't advertise it, though.

[flagged]

[flagged]

Re: Memory-safe sudo to become the default in Ubuntu

#46

Post by hedora »

mid-kid wrote: post #24
homefree wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

We've accepted it at this point, but I wonder if the religious element of GNU tools and free software in general was as contentious way back when.

GNU sort of lost its way around GPLv3 (it gives cloud services a free pass, but not locally run software, which is the opposite of letting users control what their computer does).

That killed most of the “user freedom” enthusiasm of the early days. These days, there’s the AGPL, but that’s mostly used like the BSL (“if you want to use AGPL in production, pay us”), than for bootstrapping freedom-respecting compute environments.

If you disagree, show me an AGPL userland that’s appropriate for daily-driving.

I’m slowly migrating off Linux to the BSDs these days. The politics seem less destructive to the user experience with them.

Re: Memory-safe sudo to become the default in Ubuntu

#48

Post by jvanderbot »

homefree wrote: post #11
ndegruchy wrote: post #6

Seems like the trifecta group is /just/ about migrating tools to rust? Am I understanding that right? I don't have a problem with it, specifically. Seems odd that they don't advertise it, though.

[flagged]

You've always encountered this, it just not (until recently) had a _whole language_ to migrate to. It's this strong impulse to do things the "right way" which is a very good instinct, but always has the danger of becoming "rigor theater". It's the same any time anyone proposes to "just" port to a new framework, or runtime, or platform, or language.

Tale as old as time.

Re: Memory-safe sudo to become the default in Ubuntu

#50

Post by davrosthedalek »

VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #23
homefree wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Memory safety is strictly a good thing, regardless of motivations. But I'm aware that some people are frightened of new languages and paradigms especially if they're 'harder' than what they're used to.

Only if you don't buy any downsides with it. That makes it situational dependent. For example: - less people being able to read the code, work with the code, find (security) bugs - slower I know, I know, rust is not really slower, and for sudo it probably wouldn't even matter. But safety isn't the be all and end all of software. There is a lot of software out there where memory safety doesn't matter, or matters a lot less than other aspects.
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