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You can't git clone a team

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Re: You can't git clone a team

#41

Post by mikepurvis »

toast0 wrote: post #38
thenewwazoo wrote: post #19

As an aside, TFA says: We’re talking about skills that span kernel-level programming, hardware quirks, low-level debugging, distributed systems, security, orchestration logic, even the capability to work with the UI/UX team... and the ability to explain all that without scaring interns. You can’t just hire for that. You have to grow it. Nurture it. Beg for it. Or in some cases, resurrect it. If you are that person, w…

I think I'm pretty similar; I don't have great advice, more or less my first real job I got the attention of my skip level boss (he was one of my interviews and also I did a couple projects with him), and he's hired me to two more places since then, so I'd say be sure to network. Bonus points if your network gets you a job where you don't have to work again. I've also done a couple sessions of peek at a problem in pr…

I think this is the real answer. A personal testimony is the only way to truly distinguish between a bullshitter and one of those radically curious, passionate people who learn everything they can and quickly become experts in whatever they touch.

Re: You can't git clone a team

#42

Post by betterThanTexas »

gbuk2013 wrote: post #15
betterThanTexas wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...this doesn't make sense. Surely you need to factor in price point. Often times junior engineers deliver disproportionate value. Some ratio of juniors:seniors just seems rational, and those juniors grow into seniors. Maybe there's a good argument against training, but it could also just be irrational and stubborn in this case.

In my experience it only works if you pull in juniors into strong teams and keep the proportion of juniors reasonably small. You also need to have a process in place for training them - it’s not enough to rely on ad-hoc mentoring from peers. If you get the ratio wrong, with too many juniors and weak technical leadership then you will end up in a very bad place in your code base. In terms of value, even if juniors are…

> it is much wiser to hire one senior instead of 2 juniors for the same money.

Maybe in terms of pure productivity, but if you can match hiring to roadmaps you can give them more approachable/further from revenue work for which seniors would be an overkill. Etc. I'm just saying anyone with a simple explanation is only telling you part of the story.

Besides, hiring is expensive. If you say live near a university, you have an edge in finding talent.

Re: You can't git clone a team

#43

Post by mystified5016 »

smileysteve wrote: post #35

The title holds for much more specific and thinner stacks, along with support, QA, and sales - especially even simple web apps. Onboarding is important Training is important Retaining is important Maybe your system is 100% documented, conventional (looking at you Rails, Angular), debt free, tested, instrumented - but more than likely it's not. But if you get down to staff who can't teach a a system, including product…

My boss is about to learn this lesson the hard and painful way. Retention has fallen to the point where I am the only person who groks the full stack. I'm making an attempt to document what I can, but they're going to be fucked when I leave. I would feel bad about it, but CEO has tried to fuck me over many times-- for no apparent reason.

Re: You can't git clone a team

#44

Post by zeta0134 »

ziddoap wrote: post #24
frainfreeze wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found it is best to keep quiet, not even have a (directly attached to your name) blog with such varried content, and instead just send appropriate version of your CV when needed. When it comes to interviews I found it helps that I'm in my office/lab space, able to pick up the cam and show the person on call contents of my shelves and present few details about them on the office whiteboard. But even then they of cou…

The question was "what is the best way to market yourself?" and your recommendation is to keep quiet and do less marketing. If that has worked for you, that's amazing! But it seems really counter-intuitive to me.

I think the counterintuitive thing is that the marketing communicates a lack of confidence. It's... sortof odd to think about it that way, but to communicate actual confidence in your field, you mostly have to be willing and able to have a conversation about whatever topic your interviewer fancies. Being able to do that comfortably speaks volumes that your resume and project portfolio struggle to replicate.

Re: You can't git clone a team

#45

Post by [deleted] »

zeta0134 wrote: post #44
ziddoap wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question was "what is the best way to market yourself?" and your recommendation is to keep quiet and do less marketing. If that has worked for you, that's amazing! But it seems really counter-intuitive to me.

I think the counterintuitive thing is that the marketing communicates a lack of confidence. It's... sortof odd to think about it that way, but to communicate actual confidence in your field, you mostly have to be willing and able to have a conversation about whatever topic your interviewer fancies. Being able to do that comfortably speaks volumes that your resume and project portfolio struggle to replicate.

[deleted]

Re: You can't git clone a team

#46

Post by gbuk2013 »

betterThanTexas wrote: post #42
gbuk2013 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience it only works if you pull in juniors into strong teams and keep the proportion of juniors reasonably small. You also need to have a process in place for training them - it’s not enough to rely on ad-hoc mentoring from peers. If you get the ratio wrong, with too many juniors and weak technical leadership then you will end up in a very bad place in your code base. In terms of value, even if juniors are…

> it is much wiser to hire one senior instead of 2 juniors for the same money. Maybe in terms of pure productivity, but if you can match hiring to roadmaps you can give them more approachable/further from revenue work for which seniors would be an overkill. Etc. I'm just saying anyone with a simple explanation is only telling you part of the story. Besides, hiring is expensive . If you say live near a university, you…

> give them more approachable/further from revenue work for which seniors would be an overkill

My experience suggests there is no such thing. There is work that seniors might not want to do, but if you hired well then they will be professional enough to do it, if it really needs to be done. And it takes some experience to determine which “non-revenue generating” work (e.g. tech debt) actually needs to be done, to advocate doing it to the stakeholders and to actually do it well.

Juniors need a lot of supervision and that is not free. Which is not a reason not hire them in the first place, just that that it should be done mindfully.

Re: You can't git clone a team

#47

Post by delusional »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #30
koala_man wrote: post #29

The article starts off saying that if you want people with real full stack experience, from kernel to UX, you need to grow it. It goes on to say that it's hard to find and develop expertise for low level software like hypervisors. What's the connection between the topics? It feels like two different rants. If it's difficult to find kernel developers then wouldn't it help to not require them to also know web UX?

> If it's difficult to find kernel developers then wouldn't it help to not require them to also know web UX? That means hiring two people, and in $current_year, companies expect one person to know everything. Sysadmin, backend programmer, frontend programmer, designer and a DBA used to be different people not that long ago, now they expect one person to do all that... + it seems they want kernel development experienc…

Before they were multiple people they were one person.

A single person can in fact write a program for a computer.

Re: You can't git clone a team

#49

Post by ajsnigrutin »

delusional wrote: post #47
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If it's difficult to find kernel developers then wouldn't it help to not require them to also know web UX? That means hiring two people, and in $current_year, companies expect one person to know everything. Sysadmin, backend programmer, frontend programmer, designer and a DBA used to be different people not that long ago, now they expect one person to do all that... + it seems they want kernel development experienc…

Before they were multiple people they were one person. A single person can in fact write a program for a computer.

Sure, some C code, some html, a table here, a colspan there, and you can have a website made by a single person... if we want a website to look like it was made on an 1980s computer by a single person.

Re: You can't git clone a team

#50

Post by jpitz »

owl_vision wrote: post #31
frainfreeze wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found it is best to keep quiet, not even have a (directly attached to your name) blog with such varried content, and instead just send appropriate version of your CV when needed. When it comes to interviews I found it helps that I'm in my office/lab space, able to pick up the cam and show the person on call contents of my shelves and present few details about them on the office whiteboard. But even then they of cou…

This is the advice I plus one. On the other hand to include kernel to UI raises security questions. In my experience, I was rejected as "we can't hire you, you're too dangerous."

That response says more to me about the hiring organization, and not in a good light.
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